Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

@millievanille

She needs to stay where she is. When she was part of a sadistic, murderous group she was fine but now it's all fallen apart around her suddenly Britain looks alright after all. It seems like a case of 'Good old soft touch brits will take pity on me!' Well, sorry but not this one. Acquired citizenship is a privilege and not a right, it can be revoked and it was. I'm not normally a 'you made your bed so lie in it' person but we have enough problems in this country without importing more. They know that regardless of whether she wins or loses her case once she sets foot in the UK it will be impossible to remove her, so until she has won she needs to stay out. She is being coached in manipulation and we need to stop giving her publicity.

What’s acquired citizenship?

Take her out of it for a moment. The people who are scathing of feeling sympathy for her, let’s remove her from it.

Someone travels from their country of birth to the U.K. and commit a crime. If their birth country follows Britain’s lead, they now decide that they do not want their criminal back and they remove their citizenship. Which means this criminal is now stuck in the U.K., we cannot deport them because we have nowhere to deport them to because they are now stateless.
Would you be happy with this?

It’s not about feeling sympathy for her as an individual, it is about looking at the wider implications for this decision. If you would not want a criminal from Syria to be denied Syrian nationality and left here, then you cannot deny SB citizenship to the U.K., the place of her birth.

If we continue to deny her citizenship then we have to accept the consequences of other countries taking the same approach to us in the future.

How she is dealt with, where she faces justice etc etc is another issue, but we cannot just deny her citizenship.

Thanks for the info, SuperSimple
I suppose for context it would be worth knowing how many of those in Syria travelled from the UK as opposed to from elsewhere, but either way it knocks on the head the thing about Shamima being "picked on"

No doubt she was latched onto for being young, female and reasonably pretty though ... and of course a male couldn't be said to have birthed and lost three children

She was latched onto because her lack of remorse and coldness at the heads in the bin made her very newsworthy indeed!

@babybythesea

Take her out of it for a moment. The people who are scathing of feeling sympathy for her, let’s remove her from it.

Someone travels from their country of birth to the U.K. and commit a crime. If their birth country follows Britain’s lead, they now decide that they do not want their criminal back and they remove their citizenship. Which means this criminal is now stuck in the U.K., we cannot deport them because we have nowhere to deport them to because they are now stateless.
Would you be happy with this?

It’s not about feeling sympathy for her as an individual, it is about looking at the wider implications for this decision. If you would not want a criminal from Syria to be denied Syrian nationality and left here, then you cannot deny SB citizenship to the U.K., the place of her birth.

If we continue to deny her citizenship then we have to accept the consequences of other countries taking the same approach to us in the future.

How she is dealt with, where she faces justice etc etc is another issue, but we cannot just deny her citizenship.

The kurdish camp hasn't said they want to send her back to the UK though have they? Maybe I'm wrong. If the camp collapses, according to the guardian article posted, whe would end up in assads hands and probably executed

No they haven’t. But our decision to strip her of citizenship is a dangerous precedent to set. Could be used in all sorts of circumstances which is why we need to be careful before heading down that path.

@babybythesea

No they haven’t. But our decision to strip her of citizenship is a dangerous precedent to set. Could be used in all sorts of circumstances which is why we need to be careful before heading down that path.

She has dual citizen ship though.

She's not stateless

They can send her back, so your example doesn't hold.

If she was a British citizen with no other citizenship this couldn't have happened and she'd be comming back just like all the others we've brought back

Someone travels from their country of birth to the U.K. and commit a crime. If their birth country follows Britain’s lead, they now decide that they do not want their criminal back and they remove their citizenship. Which means this criminal is now stuck in the U.K., we cannot deport them because we have nowhere to deport them to because they are now stateless. Would you be happy with this?

Considering the number of foreign offenders in UK jails it seems a moot point, especially given the uproar the bleeding heart liberals often create when we try to deport one regardless of what they've done

Only recently the "Stansted 15" had their convictions overturned on appeal because the CPS used the wrong legislation in charging them ... and these are the officials some would trust to keep Shamima under adequate surveillance

I think it's great that she cannot return to do the appeal! Some sense at last.

She has dual citizen ship though

She’s never stepped foot in Bangladesh or expressed a desire to get a passport.

Why is it okay to foist the problem on to them? They have no responsibility for her or her actions whatsoever.

In the footage I saw yesterday she was without a veil, wearing tight fitting leggings and t shirt

So she’s not under the shadow of ISIS, not scared to speak out

But she’s still unremorseful, still not regretting the violence

If she came back here, she’s be radicalising others in jail.

She needs to stay where she is so she has no power over others within our borders

And yes, whoever said she was sworn to try to kill everyone who’s an infidel is right. That’s what we’re Dealing with.

How she got there is now largely irrelevant

There is no prospect of a safe reintegration into British way of life.

@Sapho47

She doesn't have dual citizenship. She is only British. She was born in the UK. She has never held the passport of another country. She has never been to Bangladesh. Her PARENTS are Bangladeshi so theoretically she could have claimed a Bangladeshi citizenship through them, but she didn't, and Bangladesh have said they won't accept her application for citizenship. She has no other citizenships.

This isn't about sympathy or 'bleeding hearts'. She is a British citizen, the UK government can't strip her of that and need to accept responsibility for her.

There are teenagers born in Britain, just like Shamima Begum, who have killed people in fights, or through dangerous driving, who have stabbed others or raped people. They face the UK justice system and are rehabilitated (or not, but at least we try). The UK government need do the same for SB, otherwise there will be two levels of citizenship: 'native citizenship' and 'but where were your parents from? citizenship'.

So next time a 15 year old is accused of being a member of a far right organisation or some sort of racist attack are all the people defending Begum going to be defending them too as young, impressionable and groomed?

Also, it's horrific that this person has received so much more attention than the thousands of young girls who were groomed all over the UK and who have basically been ignored or accused of being old enough to know what they were doing (ironic huh!?). Seems like only certain grooming victims count.

She has dual citizen ship though.

Saph047:

She's not stateless

They can send her back, so your example doesn't hold.

If she was a British citizen with no other citizenship this couldn't have happened and she'd be comming back just like all the others we've brought back

She doesn’t have dual citizenship though. If you are referring to Bangladesh, then the Citizenship Act of 1951 states that dual nationality is not permitted. It’s hugely complicated and lots of it revolves around her age then and her age now, but Bangladesh do not accept her citizenship. Which we knew.

She needs to stay where she is so she has no power over others within our borders

Like keep all the baddies away from us?

@Tumbleweed101

My daughter is 15. There is no way she would understand the wider implications of even more simple choices right now. She is still a child and needs guiding.

I think the adults around Shamima were the ones who should be held at least partially accountable for not recognising what was happening and nipping it in the bud far earlier. Parents, relatives, teachers etc. We all make stupid decisions as teens. If she had been 18/19 I might view it differently as a lot of growing up and understanding happens in those few years.

As for what happens now - hopefully the justice system will judge her fairly and make a decision based on all factors, including the potential risks she might pose to others in our country.

Yes, good point.

If she came back here, she’s be radicalising others in jail

I agree that's a concern, but worryingly it's exactly the sort of rationale some would use for keeping her out of jail - and then, instead of affecting a few inside, she could easily affect far more in the community

She'd probably even end up on breakfast TV, with presenters cooing over how hard done to she was ...

15year olds do need guidance, yes.

But my 5 year old understands beheading people is wrong.

She was well over the age of criminal responsibility when she left.

I don't think she is a high risk to the public - it's far more likely that the British public is a high risk to her.
It seems inhuman to me to leave her where she is.

I think the adults around Shamima were the ones who should be held at least partially accountable for not recognising what was happening and nipping it in the bud far earlier. Parents, relatives, teachers etc.

Good luck with that. The school staff would merely claim they hadn't been adequately trained - or just parrot "lessons will be learned" - and the family will swear blind (truthfully or not) that they knew nothing about it

I don't dispute there are issues to be addressed around accountability, but for me the focus needs to remain on public safety

@Tumbleweed101
You really believe that viewing videos of Isis atrocities and making contact are the actions of a teenager making a bit of a mistake. I think most teenagers would find the images traumatic, not be glamourising the perpetrators.

I think the school were probably reticent to take any action even if they knew as somehow it reflects badly on them

I don't think its down to school staff...haven't they enough to be doing?

Jack Letts isn’t any sort of comparable example since he is a Canadian citizen - hence the legality of removing his British citizenship.

Hmm it's a counter argument to those that are claiming that Shamima Begum has only been stripped of her British citizenship because she isn't white. A lot of posters are claiming this is the case.

I feel that our own citizens are ours to deal with however awful. I think she was very yound and stupid do not evil in the way many seem to view her. But regardless of whether she was a serial killer, terrorist or war criminal I don't think we get to just go umm this isn't our problem. Because then who's problem is it?