Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

@BilboBercow

What I really don't understand is why is SHE the one who the British government's have decided to make an example of? Why has a girl who left as a child to be married off to a grown man, raped and impregnated with babies who died, become the figure of hate, left stateless, as opposed to the grown men who committed actual terrorist acts and have come home with very little fanfare?

Do you actually have any idea of what she participated in? She went willingly. This was at a time when the videos of atrocities were widely circulated. @ Thewithesarehere I’m not too impressed with your points either! We are talking about some of the most horrific crimes of our lifetime

@Puzzledandpissedoff
And as @Dannydevitoiloveyourart has pointed out, the right wing media on both sides will use it to their benefit. Basically, U.K. government has created a free marketing campaign for ISIS at tax payer’s expense and it is all of us who are paying the legal costs of a lost case and an abhorrently immoral action (of dumping our nukes on others).

@Blackberrycream
Yes, we are taking about some of the most horrific crimes and, in this digital age, we need to evolve our legal system and sentences to reflect this.
However, others should not pay the price of our shortcomings. It’s not just illegal, it’s immoral and sets a dangerous precedent. I am sure you will never accept that other countries should be allowed to dump their terrorists here if these terrorists board a flight to Heathrow (like Shamima did to Syria) with the sole aim of wrecking havoc here.
Do you agree?

You are putting the safety of the country where she grew up to become a criminal over the safety of the rest of the world

The safety of the rest of the world isn't the remit of the British courts

And yes, JustLyra, I'm aware that the judgment so far concerns her right to return for now, but what's being demanded is that she be dealt with under our system, and that's exactly what's happening ... unless what folk really mean is "Get her back here where she'll stand a better chance of going free", in which case why not say so?

@Thewithesarehere
That’s not a hard question to answer is it. Isis.

I know she was an enforcer for women's dress code. We can probably prosecute her for that. Can you tell me how that's worse than being an ISIS fighter like the men who've been allowed to return to the UK having very little press coverage?

[quote Blackberrycream]@Thewithesarehere
That’s not a hard question to answer is it. Isis.[/quote]
So ISIS came here and raised her to be a terrorist? For fifteen years?
How would you feel if other countries, like Afghanistan and Pakistan, start dumping terrorists here because U.K. helped found Taliban in the first place. And that was not even the digital age so no excuse whatsoever. How would you feel?

@Puzzledandpissedoff
We are not talking about courts here and you know that. I specifically asked how you would feel if other countries started dumping their criminals here.

@hansgrueber

She was groomed

A deliberately emotive phrase, she was an intelligent young woman who listened to and chose to accept a terrorist way of life.

Emotive? Do you even understand what the word "groomed" means, in legal terms? She was a child. Either the UK govt treats all children as children, or it doesn't. This is setting a precedent, and a very dangerous one.

After all, Begums can't be choosers.

@Thewithesarehere
I was answering your previous question about who was responsible for radicalising her.

If she had said I really regret what I did. If I go back and do things differently believe me I would. I'd be okay with her coming back here

Off to bed in a sec, but just to say that might be a bit of a dangerous road to go down

If we accept - and apparently many do - that Shamima was vulnerable to others' suggestions, what's to stop someone coaching her in "the right thing to say"?

[quote Blackberrycream]@Thewithesarehere
That’s not a hard question to answer is it. Isis.[/quote]
Is ISIS is so smart and so fully responsible for raising terrorists, we might as well hire them to run our government because it seems like we can do nothing whatsoever. Or do we have just enough power left to make sure we off load our criminals permanently to a country that has no way to fight us back? What does that make us?

Thank god. What she did was unforgiveable.

About the only time I've every agreed with the British justice system.

She should stay in her terrorist camp for all I care if that's the life she chose for herself.

15 is past the age of criminal responsibility. Grooming does not cover any crime committed by a 15 year old.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

You are putting the safety of the country where she grew up to become a criminal over the safety of the rest of the world

The safety of the rest of the world isn't the remit of the British courts

And yes, JustLyra, I'm aware that the judgment so far concerns her right to return for now, but what's being demanded is that she be dealt with under our system, and that's exactly what's happening ... unless what folk really mean is "Get her back here where she'll stand a better chance of going free", in which case why not say so?

But she’s not being dealt with under our system yet is she?

She’s currently having to fight to prove she’s a citizen as the home office decided they could take away her Citizenship. It’s fucked up.

@Puzzledandpissedoff and @VinylDetective are both off to bed because they can’t face the moral dilemma of us being the big bully in this case. So they won’t answer any direct questions on this point.
Have a nice (rest of the) evening.

I don't see why this has to be an either/or between groomed and terrorist. It's possible that she was groomed at 15 AND that she has absolutely taken on terrorist values as her own. Given that time cannot be erased, her grooming matters in as much as how we can prevent others from being groomed, but it is irrelevant in terms of the danger she poses. She believes what she believes, irrespective of the reason.

The woman is a UK citizen, and it seems morally wrong to make our terrorists the problem of another country. We should take responsibility, bring her back, attempt to de-radicalise her and, if this proves futile, keep her in prison so she physically can't pose a danger to others.

I feel sorry that she was groomed, and sorry that she lost has children BUT that doesn't mitigate against the danger she poses.

*her not has.

Truthfully? Couldn't care less what happens to her. She's not remorseful. She stands by her attrocities. I cant empathise with her and I certainly don't sympathise with her. I don't want her back here, what lifestyle she has elsewhere is her own doing.

@SirChing problem your post had a lot of good points. However, if we bring her back we have no idea what connections she has. She is a danger and a threat to the UK.

"We all make stupid decisions at 15"
Correct. But we don't decide to join a terrorist group.

She's scum. She renounced her country the minute she set foot in Syria.
She showed no remorse, acted ungrateful and is a threat to national security.
I don't want my taxes to pay for her to languish in jail for the rest of her sad life. I feel sorry for her parents.

[quote FrostyChocolateMilkshake]@SirChing problem your post had a lot of good points. However, if we bring her back we have no idea what connections she has. She is a danger and a threat to the UK.[/quote]
What about the country that you are hoping to dump her on?
What about their safety?

[quote FrostyChocolateMilkshake]@SirChing problem your post had a lot of good points. However, if we bring her back we have no idea what connections she has. She is a danger and a threat to the UK.[/quote]
I agree. However, that does not mean that she isn't still our problem.

This thread is a prime example of why terrorism has not been not fully eradicated from the U.K. yet.
We are giving her free publicity, doing a completely illegal and unethical act and wasting millions of taxpayer money in the process.

@SirChing

I don't see why this has to be an either/or between groomed and terrorist. It's possible that she was groomed at 15 AND that she has absolutely taken on terrorist values as her own. Given that time cannot be erased, her grooming matters in as much as how we can prevent others from being groomed, but it is irrelevant in terms of the danger she poses. She believes what she believes, irrespective of the reason.

The woman is a UK citizen, and it seems morally wrong to make our terrorists the problem of another country. We should take responsibility, bring her back, attempt to de-radicalise her and, if this proves futile, keep her in prison so she physically can't pose a danger to others.

I feel sorry that she was groomed, and sorry that she lost has children BUT that doesn't mitigate against the danger she poses.

Even if she was deradicalized she'd be in prison for life. She'd be slaughtered in public, even if she was given witness protection. I don't think we should splash the cash on giving 'Meems a nice bed in jail.