Shamima Begum cannot return.....

[Lillylolo]

What are your opinions?

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.

However, I do feel she is a threat to the general public and it would be incredibly difficult to control/monitor her actions. Which may put the rest of the population at risk.

This is just an open debate. Let’s try not to rip each other apart, more of a healthy debate

[quote Thewithesarehere]@VinylDetective
So your country made a terrorist. Shouldn’t you put her in your jail?[/quote]
Isis made her a terrorist.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

Exactly. She was involved in policing of dress codes of local women. She earned a reputation as a brutal enforcer. She was not a victim.

What about child soldiers then? I’m not sure you understand what grooming or radicalisation means.

You can be a both victim of grooming and a perpetrator of the horrific acts you were groomed and radicalised to do - they aren’t mutually exclusive.

She was a not in the situation of a child soldier was she though. The situations are not comparable. I’m sure you know the circumstances of ‘recruitment’ in those circumstances. She had a troubled home life but so do many.
Applying the word to her situation and actions cheapens the word and it loses its meaning.

It’s tricky. She was groomed and at 15 everyone makes rash and flawed decisions but at the same time she shows no remorse and I think fuck her we have enough problems right now

This discussion may well become irrelevant quite quickly as Biden authorized the US to bomb Syria again. I can see the effluent hitting the windmill any time soon.
It seems Ms Begum will again be able to continue her career as a terrorist supporter...

@Redrunbluerun

She’s not allowed back as she’s a risk. The security assessment will have been done by the appropriate agency. We won’t ever be privy to that information. It won’t ever be in the public domain.

After the Manchester Arena bombing the review looked into why didnt we stop him? Why didn’t we do more?
She is dangerous and they’re not letting her back, this is us doing more.

This is ridiculous. She is a nuke so let her loose in other countries that basically have no law and order right now and struggling massively to keep the fire at bay. Why not bring her here keep her behind bars forever?

Yes, look at the British drug smugglers in the Thai prisons

Shamima should have watched Banged Up Abroad before she shipped off to Syria.

@whataboutbob

She’s British. Hmmmmm. Not any kind of British I’d recognise. I feel sorry for Syria or any other other country having to host her and her idiotic Islamist fantasies . Maybe she is better off here simply because there is likely to be a more robust judiciary and intelligence service to keep and eye on her , but by embracing zealotry and terrorism she gave up any right to be British IMO.

What do you mean by “not any kind of British you’d recognise”.

What serious crimes are British enough to be worthy of retaining citizenship and being dealt with by the British justice system? Classic British peadophilia and mass murder? How about the IRA terrorists who were allowed to live here - is that kind of terrorism British enough for you?

Wtf does not being able to recognise her Britishness mean?! She was born and bred here. She’s legally British regardless of whether she meets your criteria.

@VinylDetective
She stopped being our responsibility when she threw her passport into the desert and swore allegiance to a terrorist organisation committed to destroying the West.

Unless she filled out the appropriate online gov.uk forms, I doubt her act of throwing her passport in the desert had any impact on her British citizenship.

When MPs start being ruled by emotions (see also: populism) and start making decisions based primarily on emotion, it fast becomes a slippery slope which doesn’t lead anywhere good.

@VinylDetective
Have you asked this question from the law enforcement officials of Syria who are fighting a real war?
Or are you just speculating from your armchair?
How did ISIS made her when she was born and raised in the U.K.?
Don’t be obtuse.

[quote Thewithesarehere]@VinylDetective
Have you asked this question from the law enforcement officials of Syria who are fighting a real war?
Or are you just speculating from your armchair?
How did ISIS made her when she was born and raised in the U.K.?
Don’t be obtuse.[/quote]
She was radicalised by Isis. You have to be pretty obtuse to think otherwise.

She's our problem, not Syria's and not Bangladesh's either. She's British end of, like it or not we need to take responsibility.

They have 'paused' her legal battle against the removal of her citizenship and they have done that to prolong the inevitable, her return.

People who are in favour of leaving her there - do you think the UK should be able to deport foreign nationals who break the law over here? Or should Nigerian, Finland or whoever be able to dump their rapists and murderers on us and refuse to have them back?

She’s a British citizen, whether we or she like it or not. She’s our problem, not fucking Bangladesh’s.

By your logic @VinylDetective, we should essentially put the blame of all psedophiles, all Facebook and Twitter hate crimes, and all the sex-related crimes on the countries where these websites were created.
Sound argument. Not.

She is British and should be brought back to the UK and English legal process followed.

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh.
I would say that her dual heritage has been used as a loophole. The odd thing is though that if IS had actually been recognised as a state by the government then the issue wouldn't have arisen because she had effectively accepted the citizenship of another state, albeit one which wasn't recognised.

As for the moral question though, frankly she's shown no remorse so she can rot out there as far as I'm concerned. She was not only complicit in a genocide but she took an active part in it. She may have been 15 when she left but she's 21 now and still speaks with pride about IS and was completely unfazed about watching an execution. For comparison, I consider myself to be very cold and unsentimental but still had great difficulty putting a trapped mouse out of its misery. Her only regret is that they lost.

On 24 February [2019], her father Ahmed Ali said, "If she at least admitted she made a mistake then I would feel sorry for her and other people would feel sorry for her, but she does not accept her wrong."

Even her own father doesn't feel sympathetic.

I consider myself to be very cold and unsentimental but still had great difficulty putting a trapped mouse out of its misery
Yet you are quite happy to let loose a dangerous criminal in a country that is already ravaged by war.
I agree you are cold and heartless.

She’s our responsibility. It’s not fair to expect a county with far fewer resources to deal with our mess for us. We’d do better if we looked at why these young people became radicalised on British soil- and why they felt so alienated in their own country that they left. She was a groomed child who has been through a huge amount of trauma- she seems vacant in the interviews, and I’m not surprised.

@DdraigGoch

On 24 February [2019], her father Ahmed Ali said, "If she at least admitted she made a mistake then I would feel sorry for her and other people would feel sorry for her, but she does not accept her wrong."

Even her own father doesn't feel sympathetic.

It’s not about what sympathy she deserves. She is a criminal! It’s about it dumping your nuclear garbage forever in other countries. Imagine if the current Afghan authorities start sending planes filled with ex Taliban to Heathrow. How would you feel?

@DdraigGoch

I feel that her dual heritage has been used against her, to push her towards Bangladesh. I would say that her dual heritage has been used as a loophole. The odd thing is though that if IS had actually been recognised as a state by the government then the issue wouldn't have arisen because she had effectively accepted the citizenship of another state, albeit one which wasn't recognised.

As for the moral question though, frankly she's shown no remorse so she can rot out there as far as I'm concerned. She was not only complicit in a genocide but she took an active part in it. She may have been 15 when she left but she's 21 now and still speaks with pride about IS and was completely unfazed about watching an execution. For comparison, I consider myself to be very cold and unsentimental but still had great difficulty putting a trapped mouse out of its misery. Her only regret is that they lost.

But it’s not legal to leave someone stateless. Her dual heritage is not a loophole because racial heritage is not akin to nationality.

She only had one nationality but the home office saw that she was brown so want her to be the problem of her parents’ birth country- even though she only has a racial (rather than legal) link to Bangladesh.

If she does get to come back, think of how much money it'll cost to keep her safe

Frankly I'm more concerned about keeping everyone else safe - worth remembering too that the Supreme Court have rather more facts to hand than we do

And speaking of facts, why are some speaking of her "three children" as such? I wasn't aware that their existence had ever been proved?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

If she does get to come back, think of how much money it'll cost to keep her safe

Frankly I'm more concerned about keeping everyone else safe - worth remembering too that the Supreme Court have rather more facts to hand than we do

And speaking of facts, why are some speaking of her "three children" as such? I wasn't aware that their existence had ever been proved?

That makes you a bully @Puzzledandpissedoff.

There is barely any law and order in Syria. They are facing destruction at a scale that people in the U.K. cannot even imagine.
Yet we are happy for them to deal with our problem too.
How will we feel if other countries start doing this to us?

@PatchworkElmer

She’s our responsibility. It’s not fair to expect a county with far fewer resources to deal with our mess for us. We’d do better if we looked at why these young people became radicalised on British soil- and why they felt so alienated in their own country that they left. She was a groomed child who has been through a huge amount of trauma- she seems vacant in the interviews, and I’m not surprised.

Absolutely, adding that she does need to go through the justice system. Imo, justice means both punishment and rehabilitation.

@Thewithesarehere

By your logic *@VinylDetective*, we should essentially put the blame of all psedophiles, all Facebook and Twitter hate crimes, and all the sex-related crimes on the countries where these websites were created. Sound argument. Not.

You’re quite right it’s not a sound argument. It’s fortunate that it’s not an argument I’m making, you’ve just fabricated it. Have a good evening.