To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

Apologies for the typos

I WFH as a freelance for about half my career (since the technology made it possible in the 1990s) and loved it, but there was always lots of going out to see clients, and I employed a nanny to make that possible. I'm now retired and DH's retirement is coming close, but because I worked at home, we've always had a home office which has made things straightforward.

His business is of the sort that bangs physical objects around using heavy machines, so there's no chance of them asking staff to WFH.

It's not a good option for young people starting careers IMO though.

The impact on the housing market locally is noticeable: prices have gone up 15% in the Southwest as people decide that they are happy to commute further a few times a month but it's opening a chasm between those who can WFH in a lovely area and those without the money and skills.

It's great if you're in a stable job, have had lots of experience working normally and have no toddlers running around while you work.

DH is a tattoo artist but turned to a slightly different path when he had to shut shop. He can work from home now and likely won't return to full time tattooing after LD. I'm glad I've got him at home, we're still very stable and comfortable and get to spend more time together. He's less stressed, has more free time and does only work he wants to.

It's nearly wrecked my marriage and may do so yet. Having husband working from home in almost back to back zoom calls talking to very senior colleagues mixed with homeschooling my 2 young children under the same roof has nearly pushed me to breaking point.
My husband expects almost complete silence. He has turned into a completely selfish dickhead. For the first 6 months he worked in the kitchen, meaning I couldn't access the kitchen almost at all, couldn't even make a drink. We have an office set up in the spare room upstairs but the selfish arse hole wanted to be in the kitchen. I had many flaming rows with him over it until he finally moved upstairs. It's a lot better now but I just can't stand him being here 24/7 to be perfectly honest. I don't get a minute to myself, he causes more mess for me on top of the kids, I feel like he's monitoring what I'm doing all the time. Basically if this is going to be permanent I'm outta here

@IcedPurple

It's perfectly possible to spend a day or 2 a week in the office, and catch up then.

This 'best of both worlds' scenario is mentioned a lot, but I don't think it will work out long term. Firms aren't going to pay for office space just so that employees can 'catch up' 1 day a week. And if they downsize and hot desk, then you would only be 'catching up' with a few colleagues on the 1 or 2 days you go into the office.

An office is not a social club, it's a place of work. You can find your social life outside! (when the pandemic is over, obviously)

But very many people meet lifelong friends, and even spouses, at work. MN is full of people who have their lives sorted out, or think they have. But for many younger people especially, the workplace is the place where they form friendships and a life of interacting via Teams is not a desirable one.

Re office space - actually that's not true. It's already been almost our set up pre covid but we still retained proper allocated desk (but then staff were in 2-3 days not 1-2). In future I expect we will just have a number of hot desks for people to be in the office 1-2 days a week.

Sorry also meant to say - those office days are also used to have training etc so it works very well. Its not just about seeing colleagues (though it's important and with hot decking those colleagues will vary from week to week potentially which is even better) but also training, coaching, company updates. All those can be done remotely but are better face to face.
It can definitely work.

@MiaMarshmallows

I meant in terms of wraparound care, so big savings on that.

Youll still have to drop and pick up the children at least some of the time (assuming you can take it in turn with other parents). And then you look have two hours working with children at home. Children who will want a snack, will fight over the remote control etc etc... How can you really say these are two hours ‘working’??

I mean yes you save on commuting. But either you are honest and say you can work as well so will do those two hours whilst the dcs are in bed/partner has come back home/Finished working. Or you assume your employer will be happy to see productivity dropping.

Of course it also means you assume you have a house big enough to have a spare bedroom/spare room to have a home office which a lot of people don’t have. Otherwise, again, working from the kitchen table isn’t going to be either productive or nice in the LT.

I doubt companies are going to be relaxed about ut as they are now.

Personally, I think that work and meeting people at work is a big part of our social contact. If your world reduces to your partner, family and a few friends you see from time to time in an evening one weekend, it’s going to be quite a small world tbh.

An office is not a social club, it's a place of work. You can find your social life outside! (when the pandemic is over, obviously)

I disagree there. Most people will have a chat about their weekend/hols/family whilst in the office. They won’t spend hours doing that but they will. So as such it is part of your social time.

Taking to other people about work stuff, being in a meeting is STILL connecting to another human being and therefore social in some ways. Having been stuck at home (much before covid) due to ill health, I can tell you that those interactions ARE social interactions and are breaking isolation.

Yeah, I wouldn't have half of my current friends if we hadn't met and bonded at work.

I disagree there. Most people will have a chat about their weekend/hols/family whilst in the office. They won’t spend hours doing that but they will. So as such it is part of your social time.

Yes, that is very much social life. Potentially we could replace that by all working remotely in local hubs or cafes, but that isn't working from home.

I disagree. DP and I have many friends so when restrictions are eased, we can meet up with them.
Also, DP's child is more than capable of spending a few hours entertaining themselves and doing homework etc. She's in year 6 now as I said and doesn't need a babysitter. Plenty old enough to look after herself while an adult is home. Also, his company are very family friendly and are fine with this arrangement.
The space is a problem but not enough to cause a real issue.
I appreciate that wfh may not be best for all but it is for some and I am pleased it has become permanent for DP's company. It will make things so much easier for him.

Ita beneficial for us, due to working from home I no longer need wrap around care for my son.

We are going to be in the office once a month, but it isn’t a full day, so even on those days I won’t need wrap around care.

An office is not a social club, it's a place of work. You can find your social life outside! (when the pandemic is over, obviously)
Our team is a massively important to everyone's social likes.
There 25 people in our team. A few are related to each other, most of them were friends in their childhoods no youth. There's a few of us that are 'outsiders and new to the team- only been with the team for but 5 years or so.
We work together but also play together. E.g. Nights out for birthdays, some staff go on holiday together, Christmas do's is usually a night away..
As a close knit team we have been here for each other through not only good times but bad times as well.
It works well because we all respect our two managers who we all support .
As I've not been able to see my out of work friends the half Wfh / office days have been a god send.

I worked from home for 6 years which suited me during my children’s early years. Then I went back to the office for 3. It was such a joy to be back in the office having a chat , a coffee , bouncing ideas off each otherr, lunch, a joke, a drink after work. It really made me enjoy my job again .

If your work isn’t a social club, you’re doing it all wrong..

I’ve been working from home for almost a year now and it really suits me. No commute so I’m not wasting my own time. More efficient. I find the office quite a sterile unpleasant environment.

I have teams meetings every day so certainly don’t feel isolated. I’m not interested in chat round meetings or going to pubs. Easier to make healthy lunches. My own civilised toilet.

I wouldn’t mind going in one day a week I suppose but that’s it.

I don't think you will save money on childcare unless you have older children, younger ones will still need to be looked after so their needs can be met properly and the employee can focus on work properly. I love working at home but wouldn't dream of not paying for childcare- it's hardly fair on colleagues without children if you are not working properly because your kids are a distraction is it? In normal non pandemic times. But the flexibility and the time /money saved on commuting is a real bonus to me, and means I see more of my children on work days which is a big plus.
There is a danger of a divide between those who can WFH and those that can't. The lower paid like cleaners/bar staff/carers won't have the advantages of WFH which will be reserved for the higher paid. Hmmm.

@mellicauli

If your work isn’t a social club, you’re doing it all wrong..

why, because I work?

and because I found that the change in dynamics within a team don't really do much in term of "friendship". It's not so "friendly" when suddenly someone gets promoted over the others and keeps going.

And people move, travel, change. If you stay in touch and become friend then, it makes no difference if you work from home.

People for decades have moaned they didn't have enough time. Remove the commute, you have your time, and your chance to not only make friends but meet them and do something you enjoy.

On bad days (not the rule, but it happened far too often!), I could have taken 4 hours to commute door to door (back and forth). Some people travel a lot further than I do, or with indirect train, broken down or cancelled train, tubes or god knows what. I can do a lot in these 4 hours...A regular 3 hours daily is 12 HOURS a week.

I take working from home any day of the week, and so are most people around me! great if you can afford a little place in town to break the week, most of us can't.

The lower paid like cleaners/bar staff/carers won't have the advantages of WFH which will be reserved for the higher paid. Hmmm.

not sure plastic surgeons, airline pilots etc.. really qualify as "low paid"
or that "call centre workers" are among the higher paid either. We are only talking about office workers, they are not the majority!

"And then you look have two hours working with children at home. Children who will want a snack, will fight over the remote control etc etc...
How can you really say these are two hours ‘working’"

Most primary school aged kids are old enough to sort themselves out for a couple of hours. Maybe not at 4 or 5yrs old but certainly 6yrs old onwards.
When I worked with my girls (5 and 8) in the house for a bit I just asked them to play by themselves/do homework/draw/whatever and they'd be just fine! If it had been just my 5yrs old it may have been a bit tough but now at 6yrs old she can easily spend 2hours in her own company doing her own thing.

Not really familiar with WFH as I'm in retail but if your job entails laptop/desktop work unless you have zoom calls/phone calls where voices/faces can be seen/heard how would your employer know if little Alfie/Ellie are in the house?
DIL now works from home and loves it but they are talking about selling their flat to buy somewhere bigger so she can have somewhere seperate to work. DS has asked to wfh (he does office cover whilst colleagues wfh at present) No DC though to worry about.

A lot of people that wfh are quite low paid and don't have a long commute, just office staff that earn about £18k-£20k, the ones I know are anyway so it's not so much well paid jobs just any office job, I doubt all those service agent type jobs that are wfh are paid well

Employees in higher-paying jobs are more likely to be able to work from home, according to Office for National Statistics (ONS) analysis of how adaptable jobs are to remote working.

Hopefully all those service agent jobs will be back in the office soon as the service hasn't been that good this past year

Parents who had long commutes will save on the extended childcare - if you can drop your dcs at school and still be logged in at 9am, compared to having to pay for childcare from 7:30am, that's a saving.

If you can work until 5pm and pick your dcs up at 5:10 when previously you had to pay for childcare until 6:30pm, thats a saving. The cheapest per hour childcare is usually short days. (8am - 6pm)