To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

Is it that hard to imagine that parents might save money if they have to put their DC in childcare after school only instead of having complete wraparound care, or only having to put them into a free after school club instead of them having to be in childcare til 6:30pm?

Why is this viewed with such suspicion and why do we come down so hard on work life balance. Ultimately it's women who suffer most with attitudes like these and just another way of keeping mothers down and showing how little motherhood and child raising is cared about in our society.

And regarding efficiency, it's a false equivalence because it's assuming that office = 100% efficient working and at home = say 70% efficiency. In reality there are any number of distractions in the office. It's just because the WFH distractions tend to actually benefit the employee that it's viewed in such a Scrooge-like manner IMO.

Tbf my dc did lots of after school activities (tennis, coding, etc) regardless if I was working that day so for me that cost wouldn't change.

It's perfectly possible to spend a day or 2 a week in the office, and catch up then.

This 'best of both worlds' scenario is mentioned a lot, but I don't think it will work out long term. Firms aren't going to pay for office space just so that employees can 'catch up' 1 day a week. And if they downsize and hot desk, then you would only be 'catching up' with a few colleagues on the 1 or 2 days you go into the office.

An office is not a social club, it's a place of work. You can find your social life outside! (when the pandemic is over, obviously)

But very many people meet lifelong friends, and even spouses, at work. MN is full of people who have their lives sorted out, or think they have. But for many younger people especially, the workplace is the place where they form friendships and a life of interacting via Teams is not a desirable one.

[quote Babymamaroon]@unmarkedbythat

That may be true but that doesn't mean those of us who can want a return to the old ways.

There doesn't have to be a one size fits all - as you say, there can't be.[/quote]
Yes. I'm COO of a software development company, and at the point I took it over there was quite a damaging culture of presenteeism that was actively inhibiting good work output.

I've had to coax the staff into having more autonomy and more creativity, but now they're really getting it. After inheriting a toxic work environment, I'm really proud of the fact that staff have spontaneously told me how much happier they are under my leadership than the previous one. And as a director I am happy that I'm getting so much better work out of them.

If it doesn't work for someone else, fine. But the naysayers don't get to decide what works for my business.

I already WFH in my own business, whilst DH's place have just dismantled their offices after surveying everyone. In the future, they plan to rent out space as they need it.

One of my biggest clients has already announced blended working across a reduced site and I can see this becoming more commonplace with fewer days in the office.

My organisation is currently looking into downsizing on office space and making hot-desking more common. Employees will be expected to work from home a few days a week, with 2-3 days in the office.
Would suit me, as I have the space at home and have the kind of role where I can be missed in the office 2-3 days a week. Also, I've been enjoying the sense of autonomy wfh is giving me atm.
Not sure how great it will be for some of my colleagues though who live on their own or work from their bedrooms. I think mental health is going to be a big issue in years to come...

Pubs! The original social network! Where throughout history people have gathered with others to find out things in their local area like who is looking for work and who is taking on workers, joining in pool and darts teams general socialising.

Most people go to pubs with at least one other friend, often in groups, and aren't that interested in socialising with strangers. Yes, they might have a bit of chit-chat, but I doubt many long-term friendships originate in pubs. Certainly a fraction of those which start in the workplace.

And regarding efficiency, it's a false equivalence because it's assuming that office = 100% efficient working and at home = say 70% efficiency. In reality there are any number of distractions in the office. It's just because the WFH distractions tend to actually benefit the employee that it's viewed in such a Scrooge-like manner IMO.

Some jobs can be succesfully done from home, but over the past year I've noticed a significant drop-off in customer service and general efficiency with all of the organisations I deal with.

One thing I wonder since DH is looking at a mix of remote is if we were to move further out what happens if he needed to get another job & they didn't offer the same pattern.

I really like wfh, I hated it at the start and depression was a kicker. But now, I’m loving sitting in my living room with all my animals. I had two dogs and now I have two dogs and three cats. The cats sit on the dining table behind me, the dogs under my feet, we have our lunch time walk and I collect DS at 3pm and then I work for another couple of hours. If I’m having a bad day I take DS to school, give myself an extra hour in bed when I get back and make it up the next day.

I’m so much more productive at home as well

I think the game changer is the ability to work more flexibly too.

For years I have been doing 5 hours in the office most days (while the children are in school) and the rest of my (full time) hours I do whenever it suits me. It finally feels like the rest of the world has caught up with the benefits of this way of working now .

I think mental health is going to be a big issue in years to come...

There could be a big fall out. What happens if people who can't wfh resent those that can or those industries struggle recruit? Would people pay more taxes to offset some of the financial burdens on others?

I’ve WFH for 12 years. My DD is 10. I’ve found it has its good sides and it’s bad sides. The good sides:

• no wasting time commuting
• being able to fit in some home jobs around work during the day
• being home for the dog

Bad sides:

• no one takes my work seriously and everyone thinks I can just “watch the kids” or “run the errand” or “accept the delivery”

[quote onlychildandhamster]@EarlGreywithLemon i really think it comes down to industry and company culture. Goldman and Barclays recruits lots of graduates, so does my company- they therefore need the seniors in the office to train the juniors.

In a smaller company set up with mostly older employees, i can see how wfh can work really well. It can also work well in some parts of the civil service.[/quote]
My company does too, but surely that doesn’t mean all seniors have to be in all of the time. Between them they can cover just fine with everyone in 2 days a week, as long as there’s coordination.

Most people go to pubs with at least one other friend, often in groups, and aren't that interested in socialising with strangers. Yes, they might have a bit of chit-chat, but I doubt many long-term friendships originate in pubs. Certainly a fraction of those which start in the workplace.
I suppose that depends on the area you live.
The pubs in my area are the hub if the community that pull together organise social and charity events.
My son has made a load of new mates since he was 18 and went to the local that have gone from nodding hello to when you walk in to socialising away from the pub.

Wfh dosent work for all, my partner tried to phone the bank last week about a serious matter from his account, only to get the bank operator on the other end with a screaming child. He ended up hanging up snd trying later that day.

I think if it became common we'd see an increase in alcohol and drug use and suicide.

For a lot of marginal people work is what gives them much of their socialisation

Some jobs can be succesfully done from home, but over the past year I've noticed a significant drop-off in customer service and general efficiency with all of the organisations I deal with.

How can you determine how much of that is because of working from home and how much from staff being furloughed, so fewer people to answer phones/emails? Or because there were way more queries to deal with becuse of COVID?

@BlueSoop

I would love to wfh but the fact is most employers want people in. Imo we will end up with a social divide where poorly paid workers are wfh and higher paid workers are required in the office.

I think there's a risk of this too.

Also, I don't get how wfh saves on childcare costs, as surely people should be concentrating on work not looking after their children on company time. For babies and very small children at least.

[quote luckylavender]@MiaMarshmallows - how will it save on childcare costs? [/quote]
I commute about an hour each way to the office and my daughters' school is a five minute walk away so it will save me about 4 hours' childcare a day, which is 16 a week for us, approximately £350 a month for us.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

Some jobs can be succesfully done from home, but over the past year I've noticed a significant drop-off in customer service and general efficiency with all of the organisations I deal with.

How can you determine how much of that is because of working from home and how much from staff being furloughed, so fewer people to answer phones/emails? Or because there were way more queries to deal with becuse of COVID?

You're right, I can't say for sure, but WFH seems an obvious factor. If anything, queries in the organisations I deal with would have lessened rather than increased due to Covid and I don't believe large numbers of staff have been furloughed either.

I must admit after almost a year of WFH I would kill for some time in the office with some people for company instead of the pets. Unfortunately my office is now permanently closed so no chance for me. I actually think it has been really bad for my mental health. I find my self increasingly needy for conversation when DH or DS who both work out of the office come home . They are the opposite and just want some downtime. I am hoping being out of lockdown and the opportunity to socialise might cure me otherwise I will be looking for another job eventually as I am sick of my home .

I think there are positives and negatives.
Young children need to be supervised, so you cannot really use it as a replacement for paid childcare. Even school age children usually require 'wrap around' care for after school, and school holidays.
However, a flexible approach can be useful, say WFH 1 or 2 days a week, and if school age children, maybe you can collect from school, and catch up later.
However, it really depends on the nature of the job, and the nature of the children.
WFH can be detrimental to the work envoronment, working as a team, how new colleagues learn to fit in, learn the role, etc What about mentoring, and / or collaboration.
Its easier to see if you alone are omitted from a meeting for example, if you are in the office, and see everyone else get up, and go to meeting room, etc. Not so easy to realise this if at home, and using some form of video conferencing (zoom, teams, etc).
On the otherhand. No more 'snow days'. Just WFH instead

I've worked from home at least part of the week for over 10 years. It's nice to have flexibility, but no way in hell would I want to work from home permanently. In fact, I can't wait to get back to the office. It doesn't really save on childcare because, in normal times, I can't really be caring for my young children while working. It does save on commuting time and costs (my commuting costs and commute length are much longer than normal peoples). But I use that commute to do things I can't do now for myself, like read, catch up on work so I can relax in the evening, do life admin, eat a meal and drink a glass of wine in peace, etc. I will still work from home part of every week and in my London office the other part, but I'm really looking forward to getting back to normal.

Most big City employers have had awFH policies for years and it's usual the most senior staff who work from home. Total rubbish that you're overlooked for promotions WFH. Certainly not at the large corporate employers.