To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

[ParadiseIsland]

[quote GintyMcGinty]@ParadiseIsland

can I ask how you are planning to deal with new staff, training and new graduates?

New staff - we haven't recruited during this period - going forward if its a job that can wfh then it will be advertised as a choice wfh/office or mix. That way we can attract the best range of candidates.

Training - all our training has moved online. going forward I expect it to be a mix of online and face to face.

Just now it is rubbish because its only wfh. Going forward hopefully there will be a mix and new starters will be able to meet colleague's and many of the issues can be overcome.[/quote]
So what you are saying is that ONLY wfh isn’t a workable situation to induce new people and create a team rather than people vaguely working together?

Fwiw I have both done some training online AND delivered training online. Unless you are talking about training where people aren’t allowed or expected to ask questions, I don’t think online is as good. Even conferences where you are less likely to ask questions aren’t as good because you can’t meet people and build up a network.
But it’s cheaper....

[ParadiseIsland]

Btw I’m not against wfh but I think many people on MN have this naive idea that wfh is the same than in the office but wo the commute.

I believe that having most people wfh 90+% of the time will require big reorganisation within the company.

As an example (wo going about new starters), DH just discovered that someone took some responsibilities on a project wo any approval that basically has put DH out of job (that’s the new project that would have been his for the next 4 years).
This wouldn’t have happened in the office. But online allows for that.
Same with raising issues (you can’t catch your manager between two doors) before it becomes a real problem etc.

So YY to wfh but ONLY if the company has also learnt to adapt to it. I don’t think any of them have, unless they were somehow already having a lot of people wfh.
I also believe people will have to adjust their own life to compensate for the lack of social interaction, finding space for an office at home (who has two spare bedrooms so that each partner can have their own office?), and simply avoid to be with their partner 24/7 (which will be an issue for a lot of couples in the LT)

[Chimeraforce]

Our office has removed the hardwired pc terminals and most desks.
There will be minimal hot desks (booked in advance apparently🙄) but having to bike in with a laptop to not even get the benefit of a proper keyboard and 2 lovely big monitors... Well to me, there's nothing worth going in for.
My colleagues and I will likely never all be in together again. The things I like about the office are gone. So wfh it is.

[newlabelwriter]

My company looks like it’s going to do a couple of days in the office and the rest from home which is fine perfect for me and most colleagues.

[UmteenthUser]

A lot of the advantage of wfh is no commute but many people still work in the same town as they live so would not have that advantage, also not everyone has children that they have to work around. If you work locally and don't have children sometimes wfh is not such an advantage and ends up being more expensive because of larger heating bills

[Wexone]

WFH the past year has been a game changer for me life. before I would be on the road by 6am constantly checking Google maps to see how the traffic was and using back roads so I didn't crawl in traffic. eating my breakfast by time I get into work. over an hour (if trafgic not too bad) layer. curising anyone ybat cane near me or a meeting popped up or an urgent matter came up near home time as knowing by time it was done etc would be driving late at home going home to a dinner of waffles and fish fingers at 9 at night and collapsing in bed. now get up at 7 am dressed had My breakfast and walked the dog by the time my 8am meeting starts. I am more productive and have got loads done including implement and train everyone on a new system. yes I have had shitty productive days as well as super productive days. but that would have been the same in the office plus we have had some shitty depressing times the past year. I have reduced time walking to meetings spoken to my boss more as even though he sat across from me he was never at his desk as always in meetings. I am less tired less cranky getting more done at home alot fitter eating better as more time to cook ( though still have waffles and fish fingers every once in a while) plus when Lockdown was lifted saw more of my family. I do miss people on my office but there is more people I don't miss 😉 . its not for every one and not for every job. I do hope my company keeps it up when normality returns. but if it doesn't will be looking for a new job where a balance of wfh is allowed. it will allow more flexibility to everything but it depends on your job. I am lucky I have the space my partner doesn't wfh and don't have children

[Purpl]

I can’t see that if you work in London and get a higher salary or London weighting that you will still earn that salary when you are from working from home permanently. I think employers will cut wages

[UmteenthUser]

Government will find some way to tax it if they get less tax in from people not using offices

[bmush]

Now that WFH has been normalised, I think it is going to create enormous opportunities for people who are tied to the school run. If we can go into an office occasionally, all the better. I live in a remote place, a 25 minute drive to school and DP normally working away, so to commute on top of that is almost impossible, WFH will allow me to fit a whole working day in around the school run. I am really excited by the change in attitude that WFH is perfectly possible.

[Literallynoidea]

Nearly all my work friends are desperate to go back, as I am. Only the lazy ones who don't really fit in want to stay wfh.

I think it depends on the job entirely. My business is really fun - everyone loves it, and I have made lifelong friends there. If you hate your job, or are antisocial, maybe you want to keep wfh.

But I definitely hope my children won't be stuck at hone with their laptops - how on earth will they learn the ropes, make friends, have a social life?

[Embroideredstars]

@BlueSoop

I would love to wfh but the fact is most employers want people in. Imo we will end up with a social divide where poorly paid workers are wfh and higher paid workers are required in the office.

I'd have thought it'd be the other way round. In my experience the "privilege" of working from home is for higher paid managers, but I only have experience of a very narrow field.

It is only a viable option for people who have space at home.

Also, I can't see many employers encouraging working from home long term if people think they can mind their children at the same time!

[Happyher]

Good luck to you if it works for you. I think a lot of companies will carry on if their staff are happy as it cuts down on accommodation costs. It should become part of flexible working arrangements

[Cloudbeeb]

@Purpl

I can’t see that if you work in London and get a higher salary or London weighting that you will still earn that salary when you are from working from home permanently. I think employers will cut wages

Yes they definitely will, no way will people continue to get London weighting if working remotely. There are also some areas where wages tend to be lower for comparable jobs, no doubt it will end up with a lowering of wages. At a guess though I reckon most will end up being a combo of both rather than wfh full time.

[Xmasbaby11]

I teach at a uni so will not be wfh forever, but may be able to a day or two a week is some courses stay online. I don't mind either way. I love my colleagues and seeing students face to face, but I'm comfortable at home and there's less rushing round with the kids.

[MiaMarshmallows]

DP has had his salary upped since wfh as the business has done better then ever so not necessarily true that workers will not get pay rises.

[LadyWithLapdog]

London weighting used to be in the region of £2000 a year and only in some jobs. That barely covers commuting costs, work shoes, shop-bought lunches or the stress of 2-3-4 hours daily commuting.

[Cloudbeeb]

@LadyWithLapdog

London weighting used to be in the region of £2000 a year and only in some jobs. That barely covers commuting costs, work shoes, shop-bought lunches or the stress of 2-3-4 hours daily commuting.

Unless you live in London and have inflated rental costs etc? You can obviously move if remote working fully, but wages will likely fall in line with the lower paid areas of the country as no need to be as competitive, and if you're by family and friends you might not want to. It's complex.

[Rainboom]

Mine will go to afterschool childcare as I expect others would. As long schools are open there is no need to "mind children while you work"

[Rainboom]

So childcare costs should not come down. Only commuting. And I cant imagine it will be WFH 5 days.. pre covid I wfh 1 day so I imagine it will be 2-3 days and maybe eventually back to 1 day

[Dontforgetyourbrolly]

I've wfh for 5 years. Childcare costs not affected because I could not work at home whilst looking after a child under 5 - unless youbwprk as a child minder that's a silly thing to assume .
After lockdowns after school club costs rocketing I can wfh with ds who is now 7 but only if hes at school all day so I get an uninterrupted chunk of time .
It's good for saving money and time on the commute, but through my time wfh I would go into the london office about once a month and also attend socialising with clients when I could . It's a shame that option has now been taken away .

[drspouse]

The 8-4 workers haven't answered my questions about how they work 8-9 yet.
But it's irrelevant to me as one of my DCs has no wrap around care at their school and I couldn't just slack off all 4-5pm meetings permanently (and I can't guarantee there will be a free club every day till 4 for the other one).

So in summary, yes it will help my DH because he won't have a silly commute. No it won't help our childcare costs at all.

[0htooooodles]

Having just started a full time job after being self employed for almost two years, I hope we're given the option to continue to wfh. From what I've heard though it doesn't seem like we will...

[Unihorn]

@drspouse

The 8-4 workers haven't answered my questions about how they work 8-9 yet.
But it's irrelevant to me as one of my DCs has no wrap around care at their school and I couldn't just slack off all 4-5pm meetings permanently (and I can't guarantee there will be a free club every day till 4 for the other one).

So in summary, yes it will help my DH because he won't have a silly commute. No it won't help our childcare costs at all.

We use a childminder so pay hourly for two children, so it would make a difference for me. My husband is a shift worker so if flexible WFH was allowed I could work from the office around the days he's working early/late and remove quite a lot of childcare costs taking into account my two hour round trip commute. We're allowed to work any 8 hours between 7am and 6pm anyway but with childcare drop off and commute at the moment I can't normally get there until 8.45am.

If flex WFH was allowed I could log on at 7 if my husband was home, walk my children to school and be back within 15 minutes at 9ish and only need an hour's care after school.

[bungaloid]

Wages will definitely normalise if fully remote, it's already started for those working in Silicon Valley. Even with 20% pay cuts still worth escaping a ridiculously expensive city. Like we've heard before on MN, living outside of London can be a scary place. Weird accents, no culture and generally lower IQ of people you meet.

[merrymouse]

So childcare costs should not come down. Only commuting.

You also have to factor in the cost of e.g heating a house during the day.

I think that if WFH became the norm it would become easier for employees to get tax relief, but working at home is not cost free.