To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

I'm hoping to go back to the office on a week on/week off basis with husband doing the opposite. Overall it will make life easier, more manageable and cheaper as I'll only have to get a train ticket every other week. We'll still need childcare until 6pm but we used to have an evening Nanny twice a week to cover off when we both worked late and commuted. We made her redundant in August and I think we'll now be able to manage without her.

It's been fab seeing more of the kids and no hassle getting parcels delivered or tradesmen in without worrying about access. Plus in the time I've saved on commuting I get to fit in a workout every day before I'm too tired.

So yes a game changer for our family.

I would love to wfh but the fact is most employers want people in. Imo we will end up with a social divide where poorly paid workers are wfh and higher paid workers are required in the office.

The opposite, surely? In my company pre-covid, it was the directors and partners with the most flexibility and freedom to wfh. People further down the ladder were expected to be in. I don’t see why that would reverse, even if the general trend allows more people in general to wfh.

I've always dreamed of working from home because it means I can move to a remote area of the country where I can buy a big house very cheaply. I've met all my friends outside work. However I work in the NHS so that isn't going to happen.

I love WFH! I've done it for 10 years through different jobs.

My current manager was really against it but it was a local role so I accepted the job offer anyway. She's now had to accept everyone WFH and our leadership team confirming we'll never go back to how we worked previously.

It has saved on childcare as I pick DC up from school and then crack on and finish my day. I've got reception and y5.

My preference is to never go back to the office but it's been floated 1 or 2 days a week which I can handle.

@Meredithgrey1

I would love to wfh but the fact is most employers want people in. Imo we will end up with a social divide where poorly paid workers are wfh and higher paid workers are required in the office.

The opposite, surely? In my company pre-covid, it was the directors and partners with the most flexibility and freedom to wfh. People further down the ladder were expected to be in. I don’t see why that would reverse, even if the general trend allows more people in general to wfh.

My experience exactly. WFH policies can (if implemented poorly) create a ‘them and us’ culture where junior staff have to be in the office because they can’t be trusted to wfh and senior managers can work from home. It also creates divides between operational roles like call centre staff or those processing manually / paper based vs support functions like compliance and HR who can wfh.

Yes for some this is great. It probably won't mean much less in childcare costs for us as DH work have said he can work from home but they won't be happy if the kids are here whilst he is working or if he leaves for 40 minutes to collect them.

I am however worried that DH will be at risk of becoming isolated as he has barely left the house except for going for walks with us and the occasional run in the last 12 months.

I'm really hoping both me and my partner can keep wfh. It's saving us money, both still productive at home and it's just nicer being at home. I hate offices, always either too hot or too cold, usually loud and busy etc. Some on the team want to go back in, most want to stay wfh. The business is making a new wfh policy for after covid to make it easier for people to wfh if they want I believe. I will be taking full advantage of that. No point in me wasting time coming into the office just to be a face in a room when I can do all of my work from home. I don't even need to see people in person and it doesn't make it any easier. Half of my team aren't even in the same city as me.

How can you save on childcare ? As employers won't want people looking after their 2 year old whilst working
Fair enough if you have a job that is flexi and can be done in evening and round naps , but most don't allow that.
Also we find it worse for my dh as we have no space , so now we have a desk in bedroom which looks awful and means dh never gets away .
So yes its great for some but not for all .

It would save us a lot of money in commuting costs, we don’t have children but I don’t think it would save many people childcare costs as workplaces are not going to accept WFH and looking after children once normality returns.

I don’t think long term it is a good thing though. People will start to miss out on the social aspect of work and it will be harder for new entrants to learn new skills and knowledge and establish themselves.

I disagree those who can work remotely and are earning a decent amount will see their flexibility to work from anywhere extended with smaller office options taken parttime between all employees.

One problem people do not seem to have considered.... Some jobs (e.g. London) have a salary "baked in" that assumes people need to be able to get into the office.

If we assume all work will be WFH in the future, what is to stop people from other, less expensive parts of the country from doing those jobs? All of a sudden, all those London jobs will have people applying from Wales, Scotland etc (good for spreading the wealth around as well, which is a good outcome). Also.... what is to stop people from off shore (India, Eastern Europe etc.) also applying for those jobs? Timezones can be made to work.

All in all, it can make the jobs market a lot more virtual and less "certain" that you are applying for a job is a specific location. Already, I have had some people start this - they have moved out of Central London as they no longer need to pay a premium to live in Central London

For those who will be able to it will be. For those able to for part of the week it will make a significant difference.

It will create a divide in society though, some good and some bad.

All in all, it can make the jobs market a lot more virtual and less "certain" that you are applying for a job is a specific location.

This is another really good point. A niche role becomes a lot less niche when you open it up to a wider audience.

I think it is a game changer for parents. I think what many people and organisations underestimate is the long term impact on new people and company culture. It’s all very well working from home 100% when you’ve been at your company for years, know what you’re doing, know the tools, know the team, know the culture. But when it’s your first week or month or six months, it’s so so so much harder to figure out what’s what, who’s who, and to get that apprenticeship and network you need. Companies are starting to see the impact of this already (mine is seeing serious retention issues with people who joined about 9-12 months ago) but I think those organisations that are letting everyone work from home indefinitely if they want to will need to figure out how to address this issue. A similar problem occurs after promotions or transfers to new teams too.

@BlueSoop

I would love to wfh but the fact is most employers want people in. Imo we will end up with a social divide where poorly paid workers are wfh and higher paid workers are required in the office.

I think it wil be the other way round.

The problem is this idea that every company and every employee have to subscribe to a single answer - WFH OR Office or whatever. And that makes no sense. There are benefits to WFH but there are also disadvantages (for both the employer and the employee). And these vary according to individual firms and people. So all of this needs to be taken into account.

In my profession, there is absolutely no doubt that at least some time in the office is beneficial but I don't know anyone who wants to go back to the office 5 days a week. So, another consideration for firms is whether they go for the "always someone in the office" approach whereby each day different members come in or the "2 days for the whole team to be in together" approach. Personally, when I worked in comms for a big corporate, I would have preferred option 2 as no one ever came to our office to talk to us but our team all being together and hearing what we're all doing etc would have been useful. If you're more customer facing, I could see how the first option makes more sense.

Also, if you make WFH mandatory, you have to think a lot more carefully about the implications of that. Do all people WFH have appropriate work spaces? How do you fund that and check on it? Who is liable when there's an accident or when someone's back gives you because they're sitting on the wrong type of chair? What happens to junior staff who feel they're missing out on informal mentoring? How do you implement processes to compensate for this?

It's a lot more complicated than just saying, "Everyone can now work from home".

For some staff/employers it works well. It's nothing new. Where I worked in the 80s, we had a couple of staff permanently WFH who just came into the office for a couple of hours per week to pick up/drop off work. We also had a local tax inspector who worked from home - she even had a separate direct line phone installed for taxpayers to ring her directly.

"Blended" working between home and work was already happening more and more due to the internet, fast broadband, mobile phones, etc. Covid has accelerated the process.

BUT, it won't work for everyone. Some staff will still need to be at a workplace due to the requirements of the job, i.e. staff who have to train/mentor new/trainee staff. There'll also always be a need for "face to face" meetings, team work, etc. If expensive equipment is needed, employers can't afford to give it to every staff member, so staff will continue having to go where the equipment is.

We've just swung from one end of the pendulum swing to the other. As we come out of covid, the pendulum will move back towards the middle. More staff will have to return to their workplaces, for many it will be a mix between WFH and their workplace.

It's wrong to say that productivity and efficiency is the same. It isn't. Customer service levels have fallen through the floor in many organisations due to staff WFH. Customers accept that short term, but if customer service/quality levels don't rise again, then the organisations will start to lose customers.

Also when bigger firms realise of no in office is needed they can employ on less money as no need to pay for the area , where i love average wage is less than £20000 , £25000 is considered a great wage , so big firms may start looking further afield and getting cheaper employees in , which means peoples jobs could be at stake . Why employe someone of £35000 if someone just as competent can do for £25000.
Also im in sw and we are seeing an increase in house prices as people are moving down from more expensive places and this is having an impact on locals as our wages are much less, or water and c tax is already higher than lots of cities.
My sil house has gone up £20000 in last 6 months alone

I can't wait to be back in my classroom. I have hated every minute of this WfH. I am now going in twice a week to see different people. Looking forward to having Year 11 back in in 2 weeks. Am in 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@WhatdoImean

One problem people do not seem to have considered.... Some jobs (e.g. London) have a salary "baked in" that assumes people need to be able to get into the office.

If we assume all work will be WFH in the future, what is to stop people from other, less expensive parts of the country from doing those jobs? All of a sudden, all those London jobs will have people applying from Wales, Scotland etc (good for spreading the wealth around as well, which is a good outcome). Also.... what is to stop people from off shore (India, Eastern Europe etc.) also applying for those jobs? Timezones can be made to work.

All in all, it can make the jobs market a lot more virtual and less "certain" that you are applying for a job is a specific location. Already, I have had some people start this - they have moved out of Central London as they no longer need to pay a premium to live in Central London

Lol what is the problem with this? Wealth would be spread around the UK instead of being sucked into the vortex that is London and the SE.

But, it won’t happen. The Goldman Sachs guy wants his staff back in the office ASAP, and others will follow suit. This isn’t the revolution that was needed, very sad.

And people have bought houses, designed lives around WFH. Going to be a tumultuous year.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

How can you save on childcare ? As employers won't want people looking after their 2 year old whilst working Fair enough if you have a job that is flexi and can be done in evening and round naps , but most don't allow that. Also we find it worse for my dh as we have no space , so now we have a desk in bedroom which looks awful and means dh never gets away . So yes its great for some but not for all .

I know how your husband feels. My desk is in the living room and is always there. It looks awful and it's like living in the office!

I also wouldn't appreciate it if I was expected to pick up any slack if parents were looking after their children while WFH (I'm talking about in the future not now while we have no choice).

OH will continue WFH - no more 100 mile round trip commute!! and is well paid. He'll go in once a week though I expect to give us both a break and to be sociable.

I've WFH through choice for many years now and love it. However, I'm not particularly sociable naturally and without the 'default' work friendships that develop in a job I can let myself get fairly isolated very easily. No children though - perhaps that would make a difference.

Permanent wfh will only work well for people who have a spare room where they can be sure of quiet and privacy and can keep equipment and any confidential materials secure. People who don't have that space are likely to be at a disadvantage.

I am very involved in RTO planning through my work. There is definitely a significant shift to a rota based / desk based booking system. The main stumbling block with many of my clients is HR and the implications of changing to a full time WFH contract.

Many many clients are rationalising their space and there are also a lot of considerations around privacy / information security.

Full time WFH won't become the norm but flexi WFH will.