To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

My DH got feedback from an interview that they would have recruited him if it had not been pandemic with full wfh that makes it difficult to train new starters but due to circumstances, they are hiring internally. Don't know how true it is but that is something we would take into account with regard to future job requirements.

OP, you lost me at His child is year 6 so not a problem for her to be at home with him and his company are very understanding.

So your DP's DD (not your DD, then) presumably does not live with you full time, you have no other children, and she's 10-11 years old. I mean, your situation works well for you. But if you had 3 kids under 3, you'd be singing from an entirely different songbook than the one you're belting from now.

I think some of the people who say they want to continue wfh will start to question this when some of their colleagues do choose to go back to the office. At the moment it’s a very level playing field in that everyone in some firms is wfh - everything is via zooms, teams etc.

But... when some people are back in offices, having informal chats, building relationships, bumping into the new CEO in the work kitchen, I think those continuing to wfh will quite rightly develop a fear of missing out. Like it or not I think visibility does matter to an extent.

Also there’s so many meetings I’ve been to where important aspects are done ‘in the margins’ either before or after the meeting, or during coffee breaks. So someone just joining by zoom will only get a partial picture and be unable to fully join in.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

Weird... my perception is the majority on MN is against working from home.

I work with people who definitely aren't the typical MN demographic - overwhelmingly men without childcare responsibilities. Of our team of 50, only four used the office when it was reopened after the first lockdown. The other 46 continued to work from home.

Same. Most of the companies I am aware of in real life are cutting down on office space and moving to blended working. Goldman and Barclays are big news precisely because they’re going against the grain.

Won't a Year 6 child mostly be at school anyway?

I would have been driving completely insane if my ex husband had worked from home. The only useful thing he ever did was go to work. The house was a much nicer place without him in it.

As a (former) employer, I would agree to some WFH flexibility while Covid is still around. I haven't got a job at all now, thanks to lockdown, so would be grateful for anything - but that aside, I would have hated WFH. I like being around other people to whom I am not related.

@Countrylane

Goldman Sachs and Barclays are coming out saying they are going to haul people back to the office, and realistically, where they go, other financial companies will follow. It's the bottom line. These companies pay a premium to ensure that their workers can live within commuting distance of - say - London, and they certainly aren't especially interested in assisting you in your childcare arrangements. HSBC has said they're cutting office space, but they're struggling anyway, and I suspect they're using this as a way to do what they were planning anyway. Ultimately, no matter how much people sitting on Mumsnet doing their laundry at 2pm in the afternoon while chatting to their kids insist that it has no impact on their work output, not unsurprisingly, it does. I personally would no go down the root of insisting to my boss that I somehow get all my work done in three hours around my chores and childcare, because in the economic mayhem that may be coming down the line, I'd expect to be fairly high up the list for the chop or being outsourced to India. Fundamentally, Goldmans may be a vampire squid on the face on the planet, but where they lead everyone else tends to follow. WFH has not worked for them, and they're pretty good at making things work for them, so it's v v v bold to assume that you're going to hang on for your job if you've moved to the Welsh hills, or wherever, and dumped the childcare.

This is a very sensible post. I think everyone should read it.

I meant in terms of wraparound care, so big savings on that.

@SATSmadness so because the steelworkers and miners were treated badly we should do the same to others?

I don't think a move towards more flexible working is a bad thing. And I know you said the same thing in your post. I agree with the environmental aspects and that there are other positives. I disagree that we can just discard coffee shop employees, and all they represent, in this very abrupt manner and without considering the impact on them. I also think it is short sighted and naive to think the ripples won't be felt by us all.

@therealteamdebbie yes, absolutely, working in an office is shit for lots of people. Long term I don't know whether Sunday night blues will be resolved by a move to wfh but that's not for me to say. My point though is that if you cannot expect society to 'pander' to one group, it cannot be expected to 'pander' to another. Sauce for the goose etc. I suppose I was reacting to the word choice.

@theleafandnotthetree good for you and I hope you get back to the office soon, I really do.

I've been WFH since March last year - luckily we already had an office set up at home, so I just moved into it. It's been wonderful in terms of more productivity, less interruptions, 99% of the workforce love it. Our HR Dept recently carried out a survey, and the majority of us would like to come into the office 1/2 days per week, to see other colleagues, with the rest of the time WFH. So from September/October, each department will have a small area of 'touch down' space and we'll all come in once or twice per week. I think everyone is delighted.

I don't miss the commute, I don't have to get up so early (so more sleep!) I love the flexibiity and can't wait for the world to re-open so I can enjoy my new work/life balance!

@tentative3
I disagree with you overall but I have to admit you have some good points - and very well articulated.
The one I don't really understand is the 'coffee chain sneering' part, I don't believe that people look down on coffee shop employees or are happy that some business will go down. I believe it is a combination of

1. city workers being seen as cash cows for years by the sandwich/coffee shops (super high prices, no effort on providing a good service) so not as much sympathy as we see for some local businesses.
2. when WFH you can still have lunch/coffee except it is way cheaper. This is different from other areas hit by Covid (tourism, arts...) where there is no 'at home' alternative. When people can have the same-ish product for a cheaper price, of course they will resent being told they have to pay the higher price to keep businesses afloat.

I think it will become an option for more but is likely to be flexible with part time on site part time at home. I'd be happy with WFH say once a fortnight and the rest on site. Most people I know are looking forward to getting back to their workplaces.

I'm loving WFH and my manager agrees that I work really well from home.
However, I'm not sure if it will be allowed as a permanent thing due to the fact the majority of the rest of the colleagues work has suffered greatly.
They all say how much they love working from home but it's like they've forgotten a lot of the basic processes and struggle to retain any information. I end up re-training them on the same process every month.
I make process notes but they forget to read them 🤷🏻‍♀️
These colleagues have all been at the company the same length of time as me.
So I'm assuming if they have to return to the office, I'll have to too 😞

@countrylane

I’ve been promoted significantly while wfh. I’m sure it depends on the type of job, but I don’t feel like it has held me back at all.

Are you new to the role & company?

@MiaMarshmallows - how will it save on childcare costs?

I've been promoted recently too but I've been there a while before covid.

@Babymamaroon my DH works in a similar company to Goldman. In the office, its cut throat competitive but at home, its more sedate, people clock off on time and don't stay late. It sounds good for the people but its definitely not what upper management want

They want a cut throat employment where all the employees are vying to be promoted and to be seen as the most proactive.

I would love it. I would be able to live where I wanted instead of within an hours drive of my (city centre) office - bring it on!

Most employment contracts state working from can't be used in place of childcare so employers will take a dim view of employees who attempt to save on childcare by WFH and not continuing to put their kids into childcare

[quote luckylavender]@MiaMarshmallows - how will it save on childcare costs? [/quote]
I assume that Mia is thinking she will keep her children at home amusing themselves before and after school rather than paying for wraparound care.

Which is fine if they do amuse themselves and your colleagues are amenable to you taking time out to do the school run.
We've all had to be flexible during lockdown, but having colleagues in and out at random times of the day has made my job significantly harder. I would not like this to become a regular thing.

@EarlGreywithLemon Goldman and Barclays also posted record income. My employer (asset management) is doing very well during the pandemic too and wants to go back to the office too.As the rich have only gotten richer during the pandemic.

Maybe a lot of employers are struggling during the pandemic and need to cut down on rental costs?

[quote onlychildandhamster]@EarlGreywithLemon Goldman and Barclays also posted record income. My employer (asset management) is doing very well during the pandemic too and wants to go back to the office too.As the rich have only gotten richer during the pandemic.

Maybe a lot of employers are struggling during the pandemic and need to cut down on rental costs?[/quote]
This is anecdotal of course but the companies I’m thinking of have been doing very well too. But they ran employee surveys and the preference for blended working was very strong.

@HollowTalk

It can be great if you have the space, but tons of people have been WFH locked in a small bedroom.

And how will anyone make new friends?

Pubs! The original social network! Where throughout history people have gathered with others to find out things in their local area like who is looking for work and who is taking on workers, joining in pool and darts teams general socialising.

The only saving on wrap around care should be if the commute time is cut, and for that period only. Long term companies won't be as flexible with people doing hours after school with children home.

I can't wait for offices to reopen personally, I think if WFH had been going on for just a few months employers would be more receptive to having a bigger balance of home working and in office working- but as it's been nearly a year and fatigue has crept in, I think a lot will be keen to get people back in with maybe just a bit of extra flexibility.

@EarlGreywithLemon i really think it comes down to industry and company culture. Goldman and Barclays recruits lots of graduates, so does my company- they therefore need the seniors in the office to train the juniors.

In a smaller company set up with mostly older employees, i can see how wfh can work really well. It can also work well in some parts of the civil service.