AIBU to tell every mother on mumsnet...

[LastRoloIsMine]

We nearly lost the word mother and all that comes with it?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4176497-History-in-the-making-Watch-Parliament-Live-at-2-30pm

The maternity bill wanted to remove the word mother/woman and replace it with pregnant person.
Those words are important and women have fought for a century to be recognised yet we were nearly wiped out in favour of belief not fact.

I wont say "I am not transphobic" like some sort of plea! I dont actually have to I am just fighting for womens rights no need for me to explain myself any further.

You only need to have labels if you are analysing differences in people as part of a study or survey. You don’t need them in the law itself and a primary tenant if justice is that all should be equal before the law. You don’t have equality if you have special laws calling out specific types of humans. Is it just me or is that classic DoubleThink?

Word salad all gussied up with nice words, obfuscating the inherent nonsensical nature of the paragraph as a whole!

You don’t have equality if you have special laws calling out specific types of humans.

You seem to have absolutely no idea what the word 'equality' means.

who don't see themselves as females so maybe the title of mother doesn't feel right for them either as most people associate the word mother with being female. Great! We have a mechanism by which they can call themselves whatever they like. Most people would endeavour to use theor chosen nomencalture.

But that doesn't mean whole legal tracts have to be rewritten.

Trying to think of how equality laws might work without naming and defining the relevant parties/characteristics...

It's perfectly legal to
Only allow children to go to school, not adults
Only allow some children to get extra help/extra time in exams
Have a church facility only for members of that faith
Have a scholarship or mentor scheme for BAME students
Charge over-65 rates
Have an under-11s football team.
All "discrimination".

You Honour,

Party The First seeks damage from Party The Second for reasons arising from matters of biological disparity, namely Part The First's inability to engage with the Pregnant Persons Act on the birth of their First Born Progeny.

Equality is not the same thing as being the same. You can be different but of equal value. Men and women are not entirely interchangeable, they are different sexes. Human reproduction is not asexual - it requires a male and a female. The requirement for both means they are of equal value, but they are not the same or interchangeable. You can’t have sameness in medical care either - that leads to insanity and premature death, not equality.

Equality vs. Equitability confuses many people.

This is quite a good, simple illustration that shows very well why you need different laws/rules/approaches for different people.

There's another version with a third panel; redesign the environment/tackle the underlying issue and the need for 'special treatment' is removed.

Hopefully that would also tackle the bizarre resentment some people feel about not being given 'special treatment'.

Yes, the third panel is great, Inebriati. I thought it best to start with the basics, though! Third panel seems a very long way away when we are struggling to even be allowed to name the issues clearly.

When you start to read articles about this topic it really is mind boggling .
Cisgender men who have sex with cisgender men cannot get pregnant

People really need such things pointed out to them ?

@ArabellaScott

Yes, the third panel is great, Inebriati. I thought it best to start with the basics, though! Third panel seems a very long way away when we are struggling to even be allowed to name the issues clearly.

I also worry that the third panel implies that we are on the edge of a future nirvana where we no longer need to think about these things.

The pandemic has produced many situations where a change in external circumstances affects rights. A year ago nobody was thinking about whether surgical masks impede communication for people who rely on lip reading.

Actually, they probably were thinking about this, but in dental surgeries, not Tesco.

"Caster Semaya does not have Swyer's, but 5-ARD, which is a very different condition that include male structures. Someone with 5-ARD wouldn't be able to support eggs or an embryo - the structures aren't there for it. It does no benefit to try to blur all DSDs together and ignore the very important biological differences between them and while there is debate in sports, I think each type of DSD needs to be considered with their own traits."

THIS.
It's amazing how many times this person's DSD is stated as Swyers Syndrome.
Caster had a MALE puberty. Swyers is totally different, many girls don't know they have Swyers until they fail to menstruate at puberty. Some have normal breast development, pubic hair, normal female external genitalia and uterus. This does not describe Caster at ALL. (see the other thread relating specifically to this person).
It would seem genetically that Swyers is a real anomaly, but given that
it is vanishingly rare and given that people with DSDs have repeatedly asked not to be drawn into these debates, I will just leave this link here for anyone who wants to read up about this condition.
rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/swyer-syndrome/

You only need to have labels if you are analysing differences in people as part of a study or survey. You don’t need them in the law itself and a primary tenant if justice is that all should be equal before the law. You don’t have equality if you have special laws calling out specific types of humans.

Is it just me or is that classic DoubleThink?

It's not just you.

@LastRoloIsMine

No, not everyone can get pregnant

I never said everyone could. I said only women can.

Only female people become pregnant. If you insist that female people must be women, your argument become circular. I think female people can be anything they want

Women are human females. Men are human males.
Of course they can be anything they want that doesn't change the fact only women get pregnant and give birth.

YOU are defining women as human females (all human females, is a 3 month old human female a woman?). Other people, other cultures, other languages define gender in different ways.

Sex is material and universal
Gender is socially constructed and culturally specific.

YOUare defining women as human females (all human females, is a 3 month old human female a woman?). Other people, other cultures, other languages define gender in different ways.

Woman means adult human female.
You must be very silly to think a 3 month old baby is a woman 🤣🤣
I didnt realise I needed to clarify the obvious!

Woman is not a gender. It is directly related to sex same way as man is. Its a word we use to differentiate between female children and adult females.

So much word soup.🙄🙄 All because a select group of people want so desperately to not just use the same clear and precise words and definitions that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of humans have always known and understood.

Stop messing with perfectly clear and precise words.

YOU are defining women as human females

I think you need to read the sentence again.

You also need to think about whether it is possible to predict that a 3 month old human female will become an adult human female, whether it is possible to predict their reproductive role, and how much that might impact on her future and the rights she will need.

None of this had anything to do with gender. You can make the same predictions about cats and sheep.

Uhm...lost track of my words there 😆😆 I means thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years of human development, throughout which every human with the faculty to do so has known and understood what female is and what mother means.

I means... oh I give up!its clearly time for relaxing with wine! 😉😉

Other people, other cultures, other languages define gender in different ways.

Gender is literally cultural expectations, so yes that is defined in different ways.

There is no culture where that lessens the impact of sex.

Merrymouse

Don't piss on my bonfire!
I was quite chuffed to think that its MY definition of woman that the Oxford/Cambridge dictionaries had chosen to go with.

Granted the definition was in there well before I was born but let's not nit pick.