Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

I agree OP. I made a huge mistake of commenting on a Facebook post - something I never usually do. It wasn't even a controversial post but I had a barrage of insults from younger posters calling me a Karen and being really sneery because they didn't agree with me. One person wished me dead .

@MsTSwift

Agism is so ridiculous isn’t it - today’s on trend 23 year old is twenty years from being a 43 year old has been herself (if she’s lucky). Do these bright young things think they will remain young and relevant forever ?! The optimism and arrogance of youth!

I don’t think People in their 20s think they will never age. I think similarly to you when you were younger, younger people tend to distance themselves from older people, almost everyone has rolled their eyes at their mom and thought "I will never be like you“ and imagining they would be cool mom and whatever else. Chances are us 20 something years old will be right where you are, being hated by our kids and giving speeches to our kids about drugs and safe-Sex and being made fun of by teenagers on how out-of-the-loop we are and how we had it so much easier than them. As someone in my 20s I like to think I will be all the things I have felt the Generation failed to be, but realistically, I know I likely will be much more like them than I care to admit and it’s okay. I also can’t imagine caring at 40 what 20years old think of me (but then again I already don’t). But who knows maybe I will find myself outraged and posting about it on whatever platform is relevant in 20 years.

Ageism is unacceptable and I agree shouldn’t be tolerated but I think it stems more from our own insecurities regarding our own aging process and mortality than it is actually about thinking older folks are lesser.

I have the outmost respect for older people and what they had to go through that I didn’t and I think most 20 years old feel similarly about the elderly population even if their conservative and old-school mindset might make the average 20yo wince in horror.

You can dislike things about a generation while appreciating the rest,

I hardly have my finger on the pulse but isn’t “gammon” the male equivalent of this?

@stampsurprise

I hardly have my finger on the pulse but isn’t “gammon” the male equivalent of this?

Oh yes, an exact equivalent. A middle-aged man can't post on social media without mobs of aggressive young women ganging up to slag him off and shame him

And gammon does tend to come with very specific ideas.
Karen can be from as little as someone complaining about poor service ( often valid) to the aforementioned USA incidents.
It's basically shorthand for older, unattractive woman with a voice.

Ah I see! Well as I said I hardly have my finger on the pulse these days!

Sounded fine to me grin

And now, the fake grin. You are such a cliche Susanna.

It's basically shorthand for older, unattractive woman with a voice.

That's not the fault of black women who coined the term. Fight your own battles, don't expect black women to do it for you by trying to stop them use a term they use to challenge racism.

@Cadent that is not the origin of the phrase as has been robustly proven on the thread. Please read the thread before commenting further as you are repeating covered ground.

Why are people defending the way 'Karens' ask to speak to the manager and complain rudely etc? Making staffs lives difficult and being difficult and rude to people isn't okay, it just means you're a bad person. Younger people are a lot less likely to make a fuss in a shop at people just trying to do their job...

No one is defending rudeness.
You don't need to complain rudely to be called a Karen though. You actually don't need to complain at all. You don't even really need to speak for it to happen, as we have seen in some examples on this thread.

@Sweet666

Why are people defending the way 'Karens' ask to speak to the manager and complain rudely etc? Making staffs lives difficult and being difficult and rude to people isn't okay, it just means you're a bad person. Younger people are a lot less likely to make a fuss in a shop at people just trying to do their job...

Read the full thread. No one is defending people being difficult and rude.

What we are talking about is middle-aged women being called 'Karens' for behaviour that would be perfectly acceptable from men or young, attractive women.

@Sweet666

Why are people defending the way 'Karens' ask to speak to the manager and complain rudely etc? Making staffs lives difficult and being difficult and rude to people isn't okay, it just means you're a bad person. Younger people are a lot less likely to make a fuss in a shop at people just trying to do their job...

Where has anyone defended rudeness?

And, as someone in a public-facing role, I can assure you that young people can be fucking rude. I have frequently been threatened with violence by young men, and I have actually been attacked by a young woman.

Younger people are a lot less likely to make a fuss in a shop at people just trying to do their job...

Bollox.

Maybe in the past but having hosted European teens (foreign students) for years I can assure you that many in this generation are very very entitled and quick to make a fuss! The teen who barged into our bedroom to announce she didn’t like her sandwich filling was a particularly memorable incident!

When I worked in a supermarket there was definitely a lot more older women who made a fuss and wanted to complain and talk to managers etc than younger women, I do think younger people on average have more respect for staff and don't want to make things difficult. So many older people don't understand how shops work and wanted me to do things I didn't have authority to do... or expected us to really care about their issue when we were just trying to work in a shop. Younger people usually showed more respect in my personal experience

@Sweet666 As a younger woman, I had less confidence to complain. As an older woman, that's not the case.

But, I would always be polite, and as others have said the 'Karen' nastiness is usually about women who aren't seen as attractive daring to have a voice and using it.

It wouldn't happen to a man, pure misogyny and ageism wrapped up together (and often an excuse for shit service too).

@Sweet666

When I worked in a supermarket there was definitely a lot more older women who made a fuss and wanted to complain and talk to managers etc than younger women, I do think younger people on average have more respect for staff and don't want to make things difficult. So many older people don't understand how shops work and wanted me to do things I didn't have authority to do... or expected us to really care about their issue when we were just trying to work in a shop. Younger people usually showed more respect in my personal experience

Or could it perhaps be because most young people are not massively bothered about the things that older people complain about in supermarkets, because they're not usually cooking for family - or often even themselves -much?

Try working in a bar or club, - or an A&E department -and see how much respect you get from younger customers.

And how very unreasonable of older customers to expect you, as a sales assistant, to care about helping them

Younger people are a lot less likely to make a fuss in a shop at people just trying to do their job.

//////

No, it seems the preferred way of the yoof is to create a Twitter and SM pile on or dox their target to remove them from employment.

And if you read the thread you'd see we aren't defending individuals giving workers a hard time out of spite.

So many older people don't understand how shops work
Is this a joke?

So many older people don't understand how shops work

Eeeh, dearie-me, these new-fangled 'shops'. Never had any of this 'shopping' nonsense when I was growing in the 1970s. We just bartered chickens with our neighbours. So much easier.

@LApprentiSorcier

So many older people don't understand how shops work

Eeeh, dearie-me, these new-fangled 'shops'. Never had any of this 'shopping' nonsense when I was growing in the 1970s. We just bartered chickens with our neighbours. So much easier.

hehe. These bloody shops want us to pay with chips and pins rather than pieces of eight. Madness.

So many older people don’t understand how shops work

😂😂😂😂😂

A shop ‘works’ to take your money. What is there to understand about how a shop works? Is it like a Mastermind question? Or Rocket Science?

Funny, l thought you went in, found what you wanted, bought it via, contactless, card, Applepay or even cash. Pick up said purchase and head home. What else is there?

Unless they don’t understand the stock system? But what non retail worker would understand that?

Horrible patronising comment. I’m 57, I’ve spent a wad of cash in shops over the years ( specially clothes shops) but l must have been doing it wrong.

@LApprentiSorcier

So many older people don't understand how shops work

Eeeh, dearie-me, these new-fangled 'shops'. Never had any of this 'shopping' nonsense when I was growing in the 1970s. We just bartered chickens with our neighbours. So much easier.

Oooh, Ecky Thump

I think actually "older people"(?) do understand how shops work, they just don't tolerate a misery guts sales assistant who's going out their way to be unhelpful and think they're better than their job because the world has told them they're speshul. As an almost 40yo I particularly find young male assistants to be sneery and extremely unhelpful. I've done shop jobs as a student, I was never like that and it really isn't hard to be pleasant and helpful to customers

That poster may have a point .... Argos is a mystery to me. All those things which they always have in stock but the building is just not big enough!

Tis magic, I tell you