Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

If you don’t think that the internet is influential in shaping political discourse you’re either naive or a liar.

What about the substance of the post you quoted, Sapho? What's your take on that?

Sappho can you clarify a post please? I asked, reporting who for what? What sort of situation did you have in your mind when you said this about a 'Karen' reporting?

'But the people they are reporting are typically female, young and from a minority background.

Mostly because that's who makes up the service industry in most western societies i suppose'

@WannabemoreWeaver

Racism is a separate issue to someone having a hissy fit. Entitled behaviour isn't linked to skin colour or age and it is actually quite offensive to consider the two things are related.

But that is the point, surely, @LadyWithTheBraid - it is not just hissy fits, it is any time a woman of a certain age doesnt want to put up with crap.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz I'll in future use knob when someone's behaviour is unacceptable. Or maybe twat. Mix things up a bit. How about arsehole - nicely gender neutral?

Good point coz of course I can't forget the three trillion "genders" otherwise I'm demonstrating my cis woman privilege.

Free speech is pretty important - whether that be older women of whatever colour or men even men being sexist and anyone using words some may not like. I don;'t like words like chav or karen or woke and a good few others because they upset some people so usually don't use them. My only advice to my sons on going to university was to be kind. If everyone could be whether that be when trying to find out why the train is late yet again or whatever you will tend to resolve your issues and feel happier.

If you shout at people all the time or be that person in a restaurant (they are usually male by the way not female and they are usually involved in some kind of exercise in showing off to the woman they are with) who causes so much trouble - sends back the wine twice etc things will not go well.

Despite my comments above I do think older women in particular have usually had a hard time of it. They might have become sexually invisible but a lot of men still like them to shut up in all kinds of contexts and feel threatened by their power, money, skills, life experience and ability to get things done; yet those women in all cultures white, black etc are the bed rock of most societies, they tend to run homes, keep young men in check and all the rest. In a sense we should be worshipping them not calling them out all the time.

With all those very real majr problems the thing that has got womens groups angry is the use of the word Karen...Kind of picking the petty problem to worry about

Ah yes, the 'You must not try to correct injustice (A) because injustice (B) is bigger" argument. Literally used against women wanting the vote. Also equal pay and maternity rights - trivia like that.

And, as @GCAcademic says, women cannot correct the great injustices if they have been stigmatised and ridiculed to the point where they are not willing to speak up at all. Whatever its origins, the Karen meme is now being used to attack and silence women as a class.

This reminds me of the Narcisssist's Prayer

A Narcissist's Prayer

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.

With all those very real majr problems the thing that has got womens groups angry is the use of the word Karen...Kind of picking the petty problem to worry about

All of those very real problems are exactly the problems women are worrying about, which is why they are angry about being dismissed as ‘Karen’s’ when they say so.

With all those very real majr problems the thing that has got womens groups angry is the use of the word Karen...

@Sapho47 has it ever occurred to you that 'women's groups' are angry about more than one thing?

I get annoyed about being called 'love' by service staff when men get 'air'. Doesn't mean I don't care about women who are raped.

Honestly all these attempts at "gotcha" are embarrassing as hell and are making so many of you look thick as mince.

Mostly because that's who makes up the service industry in most western societies i suppose

America is not 'most Western societies'

*sir not air

So the Karen meme is apparently used to call out white women of a certain age on their racism. I fail to see how any of the example memes posted here do anything to help counter racism. Most seem to just take the piss out of women. But as I've demonstrated already I stand ready to be corrected.

But I'll go with this .... if this is acceptable what meme name do we have for the kind of men who abuse women, physically and emotional, often kill them (in the throes of passion apparently, or when we've somehow triggered their fucking insecurities)? You know, just so we all know the kind of guy we're taking about? And for clarification the sex class that hurts women and girls of all colours. And it's probably happening somewhere close to you as you read this post.

I have reported the use of Karen as a misogynistic slur in Facebook and been told admin disagrees. I have never been called a Karen but I have seen it used to effectively mean "shut up, bigot/stupid woman". I dont much like gammon either, I dont think name calling is helpful, productive or mature. Would love to see more people waking up to how Karen is misused to shut women up or discredit them though. I believe the origin was more to do with racist white women but it has definitely changed

Sapho this may surprise you but even at my age I'm able to despair at more than one thing at once. I've got plenty of fight in me yet and I'll call out misogynist bullshit where I see it. If it harms women it's worth talking about.

@TheGoogleMum the racist origins myth had been thoroughly debunked on this thread.

Also, seeing as how Hibo is being policed on how to feminist properly as a fgm fighter, I'd say the rest of us have little chance to address 'all those real problems' without being accused of feministing wrong.

@TheBuffster

Also, seeing as how Hibo is being policed on how to feminist properly as a fgm fighter, I'd say the rest of us have little chance to address 'all those real problems' without being accused of feministing wrong.

Yes, it's appalling the treatment she's getting.

I am surprised at all the posts saying Karen is a w/c/not a middle class name. When I was growing up in the60s/70s it was classless. I’m middle class and went to school with Karens and even know one who went to private school. I hate seeing it used as an insult.

Totally agree it is rank misogyny.

This is why I have come off all forms of SM, except Whatsapp. It's just a platform for people to:

• show off
• vent their prejudices & attack difference

It's also an outlet for tribal thinking and self righteousness IMO. Will never forget the hounding of a female academic I saw develop in real time on Twitter. It was outrageous and real 'burn the witch' stuff. People who I thought would be on the side of liberalism and feminism sticking the knife in. Atrocious. Really put me off Twitter especially. I feel too old for Tik Tok and never been on it.

Bopping this is why I eye role when posters say "oh but Twitter/Facebook etc isn't real life. People don't do that away from SM".

Whilst I agree not everyone has the balls to repeat their misogyny/racism verbally away from their device you can bet it shines through in their actions, choices and behaviour .

Yes, of course it’s classless. It was the most popular girls name in 1960 and probably the most popular overall for the 1960s. It is no more specific to a particular class than other popular names like Sarah or Emma. It is specific to a particular age though, with most Karen’s aged between 40 and 70.

Just seems extremely suspicious to me that vitriol for racism seems to be mainly directed at older women likewise the hate and violence from trans activists. Surely it’s men committing acts against these minority groups far more violently and frequently than women yet it’s women that get the hate for it? Men seem to get off Scot free! Would live someone to be able to explain this to me.

Despite my comments above I do think older women in particular have usually had a hard time of it. They might have become sexually invisible but a lot of men still like them to shut up in all kinds of contexts and feel threatened by their power, money, skills, life experience and ability to get things done; yet those women in all cultures white, black etc are the bed rock of most societies, they tend to run homes, keep young men in check and all the rest. In a sense we should be worshipping them not calling them out all the time

Totally agree as a "Karen-aged" woman with an 18 year old son.

@MsTSwift

Just seems extremely suspicious to me that vitriol for racism seems to be mainly directed at older women likewise the hate and violence from trans activists. Surely it’s men committing acts against these minority groups far more violently and frequently than women yet it’s women that get the hate for it? Men seem to get off Scot free! Would live someone to be able to explain this to me.

Quite.

You can always be sure that a woman's place is in the wrong. It was ever thus even back to the Garden of Eden where we supposedly were the evil ones tempting Adam.

"Witchcraft was not made a capital offence in Britain until 1563 although it was deemed heresy and was denounced as such by Pope Innocent VIII in 1484. From 1484 until around 1750 some 200,000 witches were tortured, burnt or hanged in Western Europe.

Most supposed witches were usually old women, and invariably poor. Any who were unfortunate enough to be ‘crone-like’, snaggle-toothed, sunken cheeked and having a hairy lip were assumed to possess the ‘Evil Eye’ ! If they also had a cat this was taken a proof, as witches always had a ‘familiar’, the cat being the most common.

Many unfortunate women were condemned on this sort of evidence and hanged after undergoing appalling torture. The ‘pilnie-winks’ (thumb screws) and iron ‘caspie-claws’ (a form of leg irons heated over a brazier) usually got a confession from the supposed witch."