Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

@Russellbrandshair

I’m not “outraged” by it. I just think it’s utterly pathetic and I instantly lose respect for anyone who uses Karen as an insult. It’s a lazy, misogynistic, ageist insult and it says way more about the person using it and their own inherent prejudice than the recipient of it.

Anyone who uses it and thinks it’s hilariously funny or clever is showing their ass to be an utter moron and I have second hand embarrassment for them.

In a nutshell, this ^

So many great posts on this thread (and other threads on the same subject) where numerous women point out all the reasons why the Karen meme is offensive and harmful, and a far smaller number of posts saying 'yeah well, if you don't like it your a Karen'.

Ultimately we're all free to choose the words we use. Some people might make different choices when they realise how those words are perceived by others. Some may not. 🤷‍♀️

@Millenialcunt But while there is a huge current of entitlement amongst many white people, it simply isnt true that it "tends" to be women. While they CAN be entitled it is actually more likely to be men. Likewise Amy Cooper was not a middle aged white woman, she was a young white women. And men (in the UK, US and actually most countries) are statistically much less likely to wear masks than women.
I am not notpicking. The point is that in all the examples above, our perceptions have been shaped by the language used - Karen is a womans name so even though you say it can be used against men the very fact you agreed with @England101 shows the impact that the use of a female word can have. I seriously hope I am wrong and that the use of "Karen" by (predominently but not exclusively) white men against women will help solve racism as you seem to hope it will. I will genuinelt be delighted if I can be proved wrong. I dont think I will be though :( And we will both lose.

I don’t expect most people to agree with me but you can’t deny the experiences of non white people across the country who have all experienced the same levels of discrimination through their lives as many in the US.

Exactly. There was a thread once in which some posters were convinced our own police force (UK) were a paragon of virtue because it's "not like the U.S."

@Cam77

Whatever Politics/Sexism aside, It’s pretty horrible to adopt an actual name as a term of insult. It really needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history for that reason alone. Anyone using it has a nonexistent EQ.

I know. So many people just aren't getting it. Even after a poster called Karen had told us what it's like.

Perhaps rather then being upset by the term ‘Karen’ you might want to question why white middle aged women, call the police on black men who a simply walking in the park and pretend their being attacked, prevent black men from entering their own apartment blocks, stop black children from entering swimming in pools, try to block black people from driving down ‘their’ road, call the police on a child for swelling water, call the police on black family for having a bbq (in a area which permits bqqs!), the list is endless.

This is not how it's used though and especially not in the UK, largely because there isn't this same interaction between white women and officers with guns.

Here it's more about some woman asking when the bins get collected on her FB neighbourhood group and a bunch of people answering "Fuck off, Karen".

I've seen videos of 'Darrens', 'Kevins' and 'Male Karens', all used to describe what they call 'a male Karen'.

The term Karen may upset you but it’s much bigger then ‘you’ it’s about self entitlement and racism from one group in society towards another. Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem.

🙄 It's possible to condemn racism & recognise misogyny. Plus I don't think Karen memes do anything to reduce racism.

Going back to the previous posts about Trump male voters not being called Karen's, and why the women are. I think what other people are trying to say is that, why vote for your oppressor

@VladmirsPoutine

I don’t expect most people to agree with me but you can’t deny the experiences of non white people across the country who have all experienced the same levels of discrimination through their lives as many in the US.

Exactly. There was a thread once in which some posters were convinced our own police force (UK) were a paragon of virtue because it's "not like the U.S."

Something which reducing racism to an middle-aged white woman with a specific haircut arguing with a man (who may or may not also be white) will do NOTHING to solve.

Tiktok is awful. I teach teens and mostly young adults so hear a lot about it and it sounds completely vile.

Also hear the Karen insult and ‘boomers’ being casually thrown around so ‘ugh, boomers’. Very common right now, not funny and completely ageist.

@Millenialcunt

*Unfortunately there is a subsection of society who are extremely self entitled, in this context it is white middle age people, and it tends to be women (hence the name/term Karen) but can be men (Ken) . Society has longed put this particular group on a pedal stool, where they are automatically believed and their thoughts/feelings are put ahead of others. They appear to believe they are better than and should have more rights the others (especially over black people).

The increase of camera phones has meant that incidences that were always happening are now being filmed.

Perhaps rather then being upset by the term ‘Karen’ you might want to question why white middle aged women, call the police on black men who a simply walking in the park and pretend their being attacked, prevent black men from entering their own apartment blocks, stop black children from entering swimming in pools, try to block black people from driving down ‘their’ road, call the police on a child for swelling water, call the police on black family for having a bbq (in a area which permits bqqs!), the list is endless.

The term Karen may upset you but it’s much bigger then ‘you’ it’s about self entitlement and racism from one group in society towards another. Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem.*

All of this. Put much better than me

Can you provide links for the examples you quoted of this happening in the UK ?

I really admire how the debate around the name/term Karen is so centred on whether or not it is offensive rather than the behaviour/connotations. Probably one of the best insults going - imagine your only 'fight' being that Karen is an offensive/ misogynistic term to be called

This!! Also

*I don’t expect most people to agree with me but you can’t deny the experiences of non white people across the country who have all experienced the same levels of discrimination through their lives as many in the US.

Exactly. There was a thread once in which some posters were convinced our own police force (UK) were a paragon of virtue because it's "not like the U.S."*

Exactly the privilege of which I speak. I swear people just want to feel oppressed

I like the ski videos, the horse videos, some of the hiking stuff. Cat videos, dog videos. The good thing about tiktok is it learns your likes quickly. So scroll past the Karen videos quickly, watch the videos you like, even better leave a comment and soon you’ll have a feed which is 95% what you like.

I’ve seen a few “Karen” videos, also a few male Karen videos. Normally Americans kicking off as they refuse to wear a mask and are being asked to leave a shop. Some are older women, some younger, some black. I think if someone kicks off in public chances are someone will film it regardless of their age or sex snd put it on tiktok.

I don’t expect most people to agree with me but you can’t deny the experiences of non white people across the country who have all experienced the same levels of discrimination through their lives as many in the US

I would agree with this. However I just don't see how it's helped by a man calling a women complaining "Karen".

We have Sharons in the 80s. I don't know if anyone remembers those.

Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem

Posting memes taking the piss out of middle aged white women complaining in shops is part of the solution?

Wow, political activism is easy these days isn't it?

@20olives10onions that was not satire. Every each of those examples happened in the last year or so.

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from.
USA

- imagine your only 'fight' being that Karen is an offensive/ misogynistic term to be called.

Why yes but what else would I occupy my purty lil head with once I'm done asking men to break up my chiffarobe and then setting my husband on them? Us white women just don't have any damn thing else to think about, and that's God's honest word.

Wow, political activism is easy these days isn't it?

It is unfortunately, hence why you have companies that have low representation of ethnic minorities in senior positions but it's ok because they posted a BLM tweet 🙄

Can you provide links for the examples you quoted of this happening in the UK ?

You want me to provide quotes from every person in the UK who has experienced racism..? 😂 Please don’t take this as an attack but this is a perfect example of privilege ‘I don’t see it so it must not exist’. If you know anybody who isn’t white you could always ask them if they have ever experienced racism in their life, if you don’t then I don’t know what to suggest

We have Sharons in the 80s. I don't know if anyone remembers those

Yep, one of my close friends was a Sharon (named after the mega star Sharon Cuneta). She hated her name for years

We can stand up for black rights by attacking Karens. We can stand up for trans rights by attacking TERFS. Thank fuck we never have to attack any men!

True dat!

@gigity

Wow, political activism is easy these days isn't it?

It is unfortunately, hence why you have companies that have low representation of ethnic minorities in senior positions but it's ok because they posted a BLM tweet 🙄

Ahh, but the main thing is everyone gets to feel good about themselves.