Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

@Millenialcunt - well, there’s no better way for me to check my white privilege than taking it on the chin when white blokes using terms like this to give voice to their own sexist and ageist prejudices, is there?

Exactly what power dynamics are at play here?

Really, if I saw a person lose their shit and call the police about a burger I would assume that they were in such a state of mental unwellness that they were in imminent danger of being sectioned and that as such they had little power and were on the verge of having none. It's very, very far removed from being "stroppy" or to use contemporary speech "entitled".

@Millenialcunt

😂😂 not really a diddums thing, the fact you had nothing to say about people displaying typical ‘Karen’ behaviour exercising white privilege and jumped straight to diddums says a lot ☺️

But it's not about white privilege is it? It's about misogynists keeping women down. How many people sharing the (out of context) "Karen" videos that are now almost exclusively about service workers rather than POC, give a flying fuck about POC? How many do it to raise the issue of whitle privilege? None. They hate women, pure and simple, and can't resist an opportunity to humiliate a woman.

Oh come on. Who the hell “started” racism? What was his name

Are you fcking joking right now? men did. Since when have women ever held the power? You name any oppressive regime and it was started by a fcking man so dont try to minimise away what the male of the species have done throughout history. If you want true equality then start a bloody meme about a racist man.

I’m working class and have never shouted at anybody in a restaurant in my life but it’s the kind of thing I probably would have laughed along with as a clueless youngster not understanding the real issues behind it. I quickly grew to understand why feminism is still needed the instant I became a mother and would suggest the laughter will also stop abruptly at this point for others too.

Agree. Misogyny and sexism dressed up as woke. Yes.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

Oh come on. Who the hell “started” racism? What was his name

Are you fcking joking right now? men did. Since when have women ever held the power? You name any oppressive regime and it was started by a fcking man so dont try to minimise away what the male of the species have done throughout history. If you want true equality then start a bloody meme about a racist man.

Exactly. Those who are in power dictate the culture. Women have never been in power.

@augustusglupe

I'm 56 and you've just said what I've felt very uncomfortable with for ages. Yes, they're a nasty bunch. The hashtag 'Be kind' brigade are actually more judgmental and small minded than any generation I've known.

Exactly this. Be kind on the surface and a caldron of vitriolic shit underneath.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

This is why when talking anybody acting in an entitled fashion, "Dick" tends to be the word I find most helpful.

Some people's real name is Dick, unfortunately.

Unfortunately there is a subsection of society who are extremely self entitled, in this context it is white middle age people, and it tends to be women (hence the name/term Karen) but can be men (Ken) . Society has longed put this particular group on a pedal stool, where they are automatically believed and their thoughts/feelings are put ahead of others. They appear to believe they are better than and should have more rights the others (especially over black people).

The increase of camera phones has meant that incidences that were always happening are now being filmed.

Perhaps rather then being upset by the term ‘Karen’ you might want to question why white middle aged women, call the police on black men who a simply walking in the park and pretend their being attacked, prevent black men from entering their own apartment blocks, stop black children from entering swimming in pools, try to block black people from driving down ‘their’ road, call the police on a child for swelling water, call the police on black family for having a bbq (in a area which permits bqqs!), the list is endless.

The term Karen may upset you but it’s much bigger then ‘you’ it’s about self entitlement and racism from one group in society towards another. Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem.

You are joking. Seen what millennials have been saying on social media about boomers for years?

Boomers isn't a persons's name though. My SIL is called Karen, she's sick of it but also makes a joke of it, she had to phone a place about lousy customer service the other day and got nowhere. In the end she said 'look, my name is Karen and yes,I do want to talk to the manager' she's not afraid of being assertive though

Exactly. Those who are in power dictate the culture. Women have never been in power

Right? google the statistics on racially motivated violence/attacks or even police brutality towards BAME populations and institutional racism and guess what gender you will find? MEN. But sure- a middle aged woman is our only obstacle to eradicating racism isnt it?

Geez.

@Millenialcunt

The people in this thread not acknowledging the white privilege involved in the behaviour of a typical ‘Karen’ are LOUD

Are you in the US? If not, why are you appropriating the US racial connotations of the Karen meme? It simply does not have the same connotations in the UK.

Women in the UK do not have to accept a misogynistic trope just because it is (arguably) used in a different way in another country or because - as some fuckwit implied above - enslaved women used to talk to each other in code (WTF that has to do with misogyny on Tik-Tok, god only knows). It's just another way of telling women to shut up and put their own needs last.

@Millenialcunt - well, there’s no better way for me to check my white privilege than taking it on the chin when white blokes using terms like this to give voice to their own sexist and ageist prejudices, is there?

The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because they’re wrong for their behaviour doesn’t mean Karens aren’t also wrong for theirs

*Unfortunately there is a subsection of society who are extremely self entitled, in this context it is white middle age people, and it tends to be women (hence the name/term Karen) but can be men (Ken) . Society has longed put this particular group on a pedal stool, where they are automatically believed and their thoughts/feelings are put ahead of others. They appear to believe they are better than and should have more rights the others (especially over black people).

The increase of camera phones has meant that incidences that were always happening are now being filmed.

Perhaps rather then being upset by the term ‘Karen’ you might want to question why white middle aged women, call the police on black men who a simply walking in the park and pretend their being attacked, prevent black men from entering their own apartment blocks, stop black children from entering swimming in pools, try to block black people from driving down ‘their’ road, call the police on a child for swelling water, call the police on black family for having a bbq (in a area which permits bqqs!), the list is endless.

The term Karen may upset you but it’s much bigger then ‘you’ it’s about self entitlement and racism from one group in society towards another. Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem.*

All of this. Put much better than me

Women have never been in power.

Precisely which is why when people say things like 'WhAt aBoUt tHe MeN!?! tHeY ArE soOO MuCh WorSe" it really doesn't carry. Karen-ism refers to a specific type of behaviour wielded by (white) women.

This is Karen as she's seen in the States. And there's a Karen haircut as well which is an inverted bob.

@thecatfromjapan

So, I realised today that I have spent the last year dealing with older, white men who insist on their opinions on various progressive issues being listened to.

When I say 'listened to', I mean actual listening, by a woman and also 'listening' as in being given a public platform. The sort of platform you'd usually give to an expert, someone with qualifications, experience and a reputation in the field.

Quite often these men have no idea such experts exist. Their thinking hasn't been informed by any expert thinking, in fact, their thinking is very often in a very nascent stage. The thoughts they have are often pretty 'new' to them.

They have some sort of guiding assumption that because these thoughts are new to them, they are, by definition, dazzlingly innovative thoughts. They clearly think that it is now their role to bring this thoughts down from the mountain of their own brilliance and spread them amongst the people.

They are very demanding. And often angry. They simply cannot hear it when told that they are not the only people who have thought on this issue.

They do not believe that other people have spent years working in these issues. They are absolutely unheeding of the fact that there may be a body of research that they are, by definition, refusing to engage with.

And, lastly, they do not understand that giving them a platform means taking that platform away from an expert.

I'll go further: quite often, these men are insisting on their opinions in fields where the experts are often women. And, frankly, where the experts are often women of colour.

I reckon this happens a hell of a lot of the time.

And yet bloody 'Karen' is the meme.

The point of Karen is to disrupt the line of learning from one generation of women to another and to destroy potential lines of solidarity.

It's aim is to create a constant razing of the lived libraries of experience and knowledge - so that politics becomes a perpetual Year Zero and progress is damn near impossible: foundations that are actually the blood, sweat and tears of one generation of women are destroyed, and the next generation is building out of rubble, all over again.

I'm sick of it.

I love this, especially ‘ The point of Karen is to disrupt the line of learning from one generation of women to another and to destroy potential lines of solidarity.’

That is very insightful and incredibly sad.

There is an episode of Out Numbered where Karen the Little girl breaks her arm (I think). While in hospital, the nurse was not doing what she wanted, Karen then asked to speak to the manager. 😁 it's unrelated and very old episode but still very funny in context. The nurses face was priceless.

@Chocolatechocolatechoate

Also on the note that white women are having memes made of them but police shooting down black people arent. Because it's a joke. People are making these 'Karen's' into jokes because they're behaviour is so ridiculous.

People aren't making memes about black people being murdered by white police officers because it isn't funny. It's horrifying and that's why there are marches and protests for this issue.

They are vastly different issues and therefore are responded to differently.

Agree. I was going to reply a pp that while being a Karen can result in serious consequences for the receiver of this 'Karen behaviour', it isn't seen as a big deal yet which is why people are still able to see and complain about Karen memes. It's serious but not taken seriously yet. Luckily for those who exhibit the original Karen behaviour, they still get away with it.

@England101

Unfortunately there is a subsection of society who are extremely self entitled, in this context it is white middle age people, and it tends to be women (hence the name/term Karen) but can be men (Ken) . Society has longed put this particular group on a pedal stool, where they are automatically believed and their thoughts/feelings are put ahead of others. They appear to believe they are better than and should have more rights the others (especially over black people).

The increase of camera phones has meant that incidences that were always happening are now being filmed.

Perhaps rather then being upset by the term ‘Karen’ you might want to question why white middle aged women, call the police on black men who a simply walking in the park and pretend their being attacked, prevent black men from entering their own apartment blocks, stop black children from entering swimming in pools, try to block black people from driving down ‘their’ road, call the police on a child for swelling water, call the police on black family for having a bbq (in a area which permits bqqs!), the list is endless.

The term Karen may upset you but it’s much bigger then ‘you’ it’s about self entitlement and racism from one group in society towards another. Perhaps try to be part of the solution rather then completely missing the point and the being part of the problem.

"On a pedal stool..." nicely played, England101, but I have to say that this really isn't the place for satire. We're talking here about actual violence against women and misogynist apologies about it, and the demonising of certain groups of women - especially black American women - for the damage done by privileged white men. It's not just "culture wars" stuff.

I get the humour in your post and I'm sure others do too, but misogyny is serious and escalating. Now is not the time for jokes.

@VladmirsPoutine

Women have never been in power.

Precisely which is why when people say things like 'WhAt aBoUt tHe MeN!?! tHeY ArE soOO MuCh WorSe" it really doesn't carry. Karen-ism refers to a specific type of behaviour wielded by (white) women.

So- the karen meme has been greatly effective at reducing racism then has it? So far, its really educated people on racism and caused them to self reflect on their behaviour then? because as far as I can see its done jack shit apart from being used by men to insult older women.

Can you provide any evidence since you seem to think its such a wonderful tool to fight racism. If its so great that it should be perpetuated then surely there must be some evidence that its working - otherwise why would you continue use it, right?
After all, if an insulting internet meme called karen is working so well to eradicate racism in women, then why dont we come up with one for men- to end men who are racists too?

Are you in the US? If not, why are you appropriating the US racial connotations of the Karen meme? It simply does not have the same connotations in the UK.

The fact it keeps being brought up that this happens ‘only in America’ is part of the problem. If you’ve never experienced racism you wouldn’t know it exists, many of the same issues they have happen here they’re just much more subtle, which not knowing or understanding is just one part of the privilege. I don’t expect most people to agree with me but you can’t deny the experiences of non white people across the country who have all experienced the same levels of discrimination through their lives as many in the US

Yes I’ve heard this via my teens. I got a certain car and they said it was so white middle aged Karen. When I said that was racist and ageist they laughed it off but I think they got my point.

I really admire how the debate around the name/term Karen is so centred on whether or not it is offensive rather than the behaviour/connotations. Probably one of the best insults going - imagine your only 'fight' being that Karen is an offensive/ misogynistic term to be called.