Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

@VladmirsPoutine

Calling them CFs or 'mentally' unwell overlooks the exact power dynamics at play. This isn't even a new phenomenon - Black maids / domestic workers (in the U.S predominantly) had specific ways of talking about their white mistresses in their presence without said mistress noticing. It's evolved and been co-opted much like the word 'woke' has but it's still significant.

Are you in the USA ?

Why was Jess Phillips called a Karen?

She's treated Diane Abbott abysmally - among others within and outside of Labour - I think describing her as a Karen is putting it very mildly.

This.

@VladmirsPoutine

The abuse directed at Diane Abbott for a few years, who happens to be the first black woman ever elected to Parliament, was disgusting. Yes she had a couple of iffy interviews, forgetting a few figures - what high profile PM hasn’t? But the way people piled in on her was abhorrent. There was It was a real undercurrent of bullying and nastiness to it that was markedly different to when, say, Boris Johnson or Priti Patel make a ballsup (as they often do). And it wasn’t just a few bad eggs, - half the papers and half the country seemed to be in on it. Made me ashamed to be British.

@LolaButt

Karen is an attitude. Not an age. Yes the original stereotype was a forty plus woman with a particular haircut, complaining to the manager.

But from what I’ve seen on TikTok it has evolved into being a description of a man or woman of any age, behaving in an entitled fashion.

I agree that the root of it is grounded in misogyny.

I have never ever EVER seen karen directed at men. Its always middle aged women because how dare they complain about poor service or a product that is faulty!!! There isnt a karen equivalent for men. Of course, men of all ages and young attractive women can complain just fine but middle aged women?- NOOOO.

The huge irony here is that racism, slavery and oppressive regimes were ALL started by men. Thats right- MEN. But god forbid we have a meme for those because.... misogyny.

A person who calls the police because she didn't get a burger is not in a position of power. This is not the act of a powerful person.

Exactly what power dynamics are at play here?

Poppycat has it exactly right. I’m sm “friends” with my sister’s teenager and her group of schoolfriends and see this kind of thing all the time.

@VladmirsPoutine

And the absolute irony of using the word 'woke' in the manner that you did in your OP... honestly couldn't make this shit up!!

@chocolatechocolatechoate I agree. It's wokeness gone bad but this won't be seen as woke!

@VladmirsPoutine Oh yes, the pain of the slurrrr.

The people in this thread not acknowledging the white privilege involved in the behaviour of a typical ‘Karen’ are LOUD

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow You've misread my point.

@AbsintheFriends

Come on, is this behaviour really so common as to part of an archetype?

Was just about to post the same thing. We're supposed to believe that middle aged women 'screaming' at staff in shops and restaurants are so commonplace that we need a quick shorthand name to describe them?

Yeah, right.

I'll tell you what is commonplace though. Ageism and sexism. So bloody ordinary and everyday that most people don't even notice it.

This.

I have worked in public-facing jobs: catering, retail, A&E/healthcare for 30 years. I have had a lot of people shout at me. Almost none of them have been middle-aged women.

@NuniaBeeswax

I hope people outraged over being called "Karens" have never used names like Sharon or Tracy to describe stereotypical single mothers on benefits, for example.

Or Debbie-downers or negative-Nancy.

Diddums.

@VladmirsPoutine

Calling them CFs or 'mentally' unwell overlooks the exact power dynamics at play. This isn't even a new phenomenon - Black maids / domestic workers (in the U.S predominantly) had specific ways of talking about their white mistresses in their presence without said mistress noticing. It's evolved and been co-opted much like the word 'woke' has but it's still significant.

Yes, and just as wih Polari (another language used by a sub-culture at the sharp end of a power dynamic) there were a lot of slang words there that made sense in that context only to become much more offensive when they entered mainstream usage and were used by those with more power to strike down those weaker. In fact, if anything you could argue that the use of Karen as a negative word by more mainstream white society is a genuine example of cultural appropriation. Especially when its used in the way it often is.

That was to @Millenialcunt.

This whole "woman shouting at shop staff" thing is a bit of a misogyny red herring. It's only ever videos taken out of context, I find. And as an almost middle aged woman I'm finding male shop workers and service staff increasingly smug and sneers towards women while they lay it thick with the "yes sir" on men. Whereas female shop managers will say "yes madam I'll take back the damaged goods you paid £200 for". No one begins by screaming at a manager or service worker. Don't be so thick as to take things at face value, or the value of a biased party.

I saw one video about a "Karen" who was screaming at a leader centre manager because he told her to stop breastfeeding her child as it was inappropriate. Too fucking right he should be screamed at. But a man breaking the law and being sexist is a victim wake up people

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter
The huge irony here is that racism, slavery and oppressive regimes were ALL started by men. Thats right- MEN. But god forbid we have a meme for those because.... misogyny.

Oh come on. Who the hell “started” racism? What was his name?

And if you want to protect your home, village, town, city, country, from outsiders who are starving/suffering drought etc - at some point you will need a war chief. And if that war chief is an outright pacifist - well, suffice to say neither you or I would have been born.

@teachermummy1

Realistically I don't think at 40 you will understand. It is terminology that comes from young people, and is used by females and males. A Karen is (usually) a middle class white women who acts entitled and specifically 'asks to see the manager', shouts at service people, complains for no actual reason e.g. screaming. Unfortunately it is centered around the middle class white woman because they are the main perpetrators. My daughter uses the word. It is not misogynistic, and realistically if you begin to call it ageist and misogynistic you're acting slightly like a Karen. As a poster stated it's no different to boomers calling millennials 'snowflakes'.

Your daughter is an apologist for VAWG and rape, and so it appears are you. Not sure why you think this is a good argument on a board that skews toward women? Also: " realistically if you begin to call it ageist and misogynistic you're acting slightly like a Karen" is childish nonsense -- "anyone who defends themselves against a spurious accusation proves the accusation" is not coherent logic nor the argument of an emotional or intellectual adult.

*leisure centre

I didn't say it wasn't sexist. I pointed out the way it is used and the power balance.. gammon holds more power and it comes out in different ways to karen especially. All the naming is based on stereotypes.

[quote Cam77]@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter
The huge irony here is that racism, slavery and oppressive regimes were ALL started by men. Thats right- MEN. But god forbid we have a meme for those because.... misogyny.

Oh come on. Who the hell “started” racism? What was his name?

And if you want to protect your home, village, town, city, country, from outsiders who are starving/suffering drought etc - at some point you will need a war chief. And if that war chief is an outright pacifist - well, suffice to say neither you or I would have been born.[/quote]
It is perpetuated by men far more than it is by women, always has been. That's not an opinion, that is fact, feel free to look up the crime statistics of hate crimes

I’m not “outraged” by it. I just think it’s utterly pathetic and I instantly lose respect for anyone who uses Karen as an insult. It’s a lazy, misogynistic, ageist insult and it says way more about the person using it and their own inherent prejudice than the recipient of it.

Anyone who uses it and thinks it’s hilariously funny or clever is showing their ass to be an utter moron and I have second hand embarrassment for them.

😂😂 not really a diddums thing, the fact you had nothing to say about people displaying typical ‘Karen’ behaviour exercising white privilege and jumped straight to diddums says a lot ☺️

@augustusglupe

I'm 56 and you've just said what I've felt very uncomfortable with for ages. Yes, they're a nasty bunch. The hashtag 'Be kind' brigade are actually more judgmental and small minded than any generation I've known.

Ain't that the truth!

@AbsintheFriends

Come on, is this behaviour really so common as to part of an archetype?

Was just about to post the same thing. We're supposed to believe that middle aged women 'screaming' at staff in shops and restaurants are so commonplace that we need a quick shorthand name to describe them?

Yeah, right.

I'll tell you what is commonplace though. Ageism and sexism. So bloody ordinary and everyday that most people don't even notice it.

Apparently when one woman does something wrong, all women are at fault

@Millenialcunt

I feel like people are purposely ignoring the main point here: being a ‘Karen’ isn’t defined by your age. You can be a millennial and behave like a Karen. Shit you can be a Gen Z and still behave like a Karen! It’s the entitled, always-thinking-you’re-right & disregard for the way your negative attitude might affect someone else. Different generational groups are all guilty of this so stop with the ‘I’m just finding my voice & I’m getting picked on’ martyr routine, I swear some people just WANT to feel oppressed

It's totally a Karen behaviour and I've never called someone that name. I just know one when I see one.