Karen and the Generational Divide

[LucilleBluth]

My very good friend kept sending me TikTok videos via whatsapp and told me to get on it. I resisted but last week I decided to have a look what it was all about.

Now I’m 40, friend is 42, both white and degree educated with teenagers and primary aged DCs. It would seem that according to this app that middle aged white women are the actual devil. I’m from a working class background and friend is MC.

I’ve never seen younger people be so vitriolic against people they don’t know. It’s definitely misogyny and ageism but dressed up as being woke???

I can’t quite figure out why or where it’s coming from. Any sociological explanation for this?

@MsTSwift

CF is a much better term for such types doesn’t smear a whole age group / sex for the behaviour of a minority.

Yes!

A woman rang emergency services because a drive-thru wouldn’t make her a burger she asked for, stating her rights were being threatened. This is privilege on another level

I'd say it's mental unwellness.

Come on, is this behaviour really so common as to part of an archetype?

@NuniaBeeswax

I hope people outraged over being called "Karens" have never used names like Sharon or Tracy to describe stereotypical single mothers on benefits, for example.

Nope.

No the entitlement it includes would be things like shouting/screaming at people doing a job or aggressively demanding a manager because you haven’t got your own way, after being told politely something’s not possible

It isn't used for entitled idiots who happen to be female and over 45. It is used for any woman over a certain age who dares to express an opinion that someone else (usually male and younger) doesn't agree with.

If you don't think I am right, please go and do some research.

Are there seriously people out there who think white women should t report black men for crimes when they know about racism within the police?

Sounds to me like, once again, women are taking the flack for the failings of men, while men get away with it.

PSA: It's not up to women to solve the faults of men

*shouldn't

Why was Jess Phillips called a Karen?

She's treated Diane Abbott abysmally - among others within and outside of Labour - I think describing her as a Karen is putting it very mildly.

This particular meme does because it relates to a specific thing that occurs with women and therefore that's why only women are targeted with the Karen meme but that 1) doesn't mean that women shouldn't be called out when they act like that

It is not calling out a 'specific thing' that occurs with women. It is enforcing a sexist stereotype of women. It is not 'calling out' women who behave like that. It is trying to make women afraid that they will be labelled like that if they stand up for themselves. It emboldens the people they are complaining too, to mock them as Karens. That's how it works. For example, see TeacherMummy1 illustrating how objecting to Karen makes you a Karen. You see how that works?

Gammon memes exist. Karen memes exist.

Let's see... which ones are more prevalent?

How curious. There are 172 times as many hits for Karen memes as there are for gammon memes.

172 x more people are motivated to create memes against women, than against the comparable type of man.

Nooooo, not at all sexist.

Everyone's saying 'it's no different to calling...' but people shouldn't be calling people those names either!! And everyone saying 'it's the person in the supermarket who shouts at the manager'- we all know any conversation online slagging off a women ends up with someone using the term Karen which actually is a popular name in the over 40s so yes it is horrible to do.

Whatever Politics/Sexism aside, It’s pretty horrible to adopt an actual name as a term of insult. It really needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history for that reason alone. Anyone using it has a nonexistent EQ.

Here's the previous thread (or one of them): www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3877597-Do-you-find-the-term-meme-Karen-an-insult

• So you're saying that people only use the word Karen in those situations. Why was Jess Phillips called a Karen? *

No obviously people misuse it like people misuse all sorts of language but the point is that most people know & understand that Karen behaviour is a specific type of behaviour, in the same way people understand Gammon is definable by a specific set of character traits

@thecatfromjapan yep.

"Shut up, Karen" is now just another way of saying "shut up, woman".

Even if a person were to say "shut up, gammon" it doesn't have the same connotations, because people don't tell men to shut up.

Calling them CFs or 'mentally' unwell overlooks the exact power dynamics at play. This isn't even a new phenomenon - Black maids / domestic workers (in the U.S predominantly) had specific ways of talking about their white mistresses in their presence without said mistress noticing. It's evolved and been co-opted much like the word 'woke' has but it's still significant.

@VladmirsPoutine

Why was Jess Phillips called a Karen?

She's treated Diane Abbott abysmally - among others within and outside of Labour - I think describing her as a Karen is putting it very mildly.

Ah, so Karen is not just a label for women treating retail staff etc badly, it's for any woman behaving in a way that you don't approve of? What a surprise.

It does yes. That was the equivalence before it hit the UK stan. The previous Karen's held power over those they insulted. They may not have had their husbands job but had the power that came with the money. Gammon is the husband of karen. It came from the UK funnily enough. I only see it being used mostly by those in the UK.

Let's hope FELICIA and Precious has rest from misogynior.

Poppycat If you don't think I am right, please go and do some research.

Not patronising at all 😄

She's treated Diane Abbott abysmally - among others within and outside of Labour - I think describing her as a Karen is putting it very mildly.

The tweet calling her a Shadow Karen Minister was around the time she was appointed Shadow Minister for Domestic Violence and Safeguarding though.

TossACoinToYerWitcher Chad is used very much by the subculture of young men known as incels, involuntary celibates. One of the most dangerous women hating online subgroups linked to the actual murder and rape of women though almost all are fantasists and not protagonists.

Calling them CFs or 'mentally' unwell overlooks the exact power dynamics at play.

A person who calls the police because she didn't get a burger is not in a position of power. This is not the act of a powerful person. It is the act of a person who is mentally ill. Mentally ill people in burger joints are not powerful.

So, debrianna, what is the male equivalent of Karen elsewhere than the UK? Apologies if I am misremembering your post, but I thought your argument was that Karen wasn't sexist, because there was a male equivalent, gammon.

No obviously people misuse it like people misuse all sorts of language but the point is that most people know & understand that Karen behaviour is a specific type of behaviour, in the same way people understand Gammon is definable by a specific set of character traits

I think it's vague. For some Karen's are racist, for others it's any women who has a voice.

Come on, is this behaviour really so common as to part of an archetype?

Was just about to post the same thing. We're supposed to believe that middle aged women 'screaming' at staff in shops and restaurants are so commonplace that we need a quick shorthand name to describe them?

Yeah, right.

I'll tell you what is commonplace though. Ageism and sexism. So bloody ordinary and everyday that most people don't even notice it.