To worry that he is going to let her down and damage her career

[Jettoe]

I have two children dd (26) and ds (21) who both still live with me. Ds has never been able to hold down a job, he has been sacked from all 4 that he has ever had usually for lateness and/or laziness. He has never matured past the age of 14 when it comes to his attitude to working regrettably.

DD has always had a much better work ethic, has been working since 18 and has worked her way up into a management position at the company she works for and is highly thought of I believe.

That company has been recruiting and she has managed to coach him through the application process of the roles and he has been offered one. Whilst it is good that he is going to get another opportunity I'm worried that he will do the same thing as he has done in the past except this time it will reflect on her, hurt her career and ultimately their relationship (they are very close).

I've worked in companies where siblings have worked at very different levels in the organisation - i.e one senior leader/ director - one in a lower level non managerial role. It didn't reflect on either of them how the other performed or behaved as long as the sibling in the senior role didn't try and intervene on behalf of their sibling.

Your DD just needs to ensure she allows her DB to do his role and not vouch for him or get involved issues arise - leave that to his line manager.

I don't see how charging a young adult rent then secretly saving it for them teaches them anything about the real world! Both DB and I lived at home after Uni for a few years both worked hard, both saved and both bought our own properties without paying rent, we ran out own cars, phones, clothing, social lives etc, our parents weren't in a position to financially help us out but they could offer us a free home while we saved for ourselves. I would've felt incredibly patronised to be charged a peppercorn rent and then have it given back to me! We knew to work hard because our parents always worked hard, we were always taught you work, you save, you pay for your lifestyle and if you can't afford it you don't have it. Not paying our parents rent they didn't need wouldn't have affected our views or behaviours in any way, just would've delayed us moving out.

FWIW DB got a job as the potwash at the local pub restaurant I waitressed at, I was 17 he was 15, both still in full time education. He wasn't the best (Abu 15 year old washing up probably leaves something to be desired) and I had a very good reputation there. No one expected me to be responsible for his work. To be fair to him he stuck it out until he found another party time job he preferred and we did have some good laughs.

My DB was exactly like this. I recommended him for a job and within a year he was promoted twice and did really well before taking a senior position at a competitor. Your son being respectful is a great start, it means he has the EQ but just needs a supportive environment to gain work experience and a workplace where his sister can (unofficially) help him navigate the politics will really help.

I think you sound really negative about him. Seems like you’re still judging him for stuff he did as a kid. If you want a good relationship with him and your dd in the future you need to stop that. Otherwise when / if it comes time for them to have kids they may not want you in their lives (nothing like a baby to help you think of the support you received from parents).

Can you not see OP that by giving him a free ride you are enabling his workshy behaviour.

This isn't a person making one mistake in good faith, or applying for hundreds of jobs and getting nowhere because of the economy/location/lack of experience or education or whatever. The guy has had 4 jobs, and has lost all of them because of his own behaviour - in one case for being late 14 times before they finally sacked him.

His mother says he has never matured beyond the age of 14 when it comes to working - what do you think is magically going to change between when he was 14 and now and what is still going to change by the age of 25, or 30, or 40, if his mum expects nothing from him and he lives rent free, bills free, all taken care of, no consequences?

He's not a child. He's a grown man.

Yes you should be charging rent to them to teach them the value of money and financial responsibilities. Maybe if you had charged rent years ago you wouldn't have a 26 year old man child who can't/won't hold down a job???

I did something similar at a similar age: got my brother a temp role in the company/department I worked in. My brother's not lazy but an office/business environment was never for him so he didn't exactly shine.

It didn't reflect on me (I don't think) but I also would be cautious about doing the same again.

That said, at 26 I knew far more about my own career and what would/would not jeapordise it, than my parents - who did not have any real business experience, having worked in totally different fields.

*That's a pretty nasty post. Is it really necessary? The OP didn't ask for you to critique her parenting, she just wanted to chat about her concern.

Why do so many of these perfectly reasonable threads descend so rapidly into a pack-style attack on the OP?*

I really don't know - but it's bloody ruining mn. It's like a bloody plague!

@EachBleachBlairTrump but the DS isn't working hard and saving like your and DB, so how is your experience relevant? You might rightly have felt patronised by paying rent, because you already knew the value of money and were on the path to supporting yourself. The DS in the OP doesn't and isn't and hence a lesson in is needed and not patronising.

He won’t pass his probation period if he’s not up to the job and that is entirely his choice.

Sit your son down and spell it out to him. He has messed up previous jobs and he needs to learn from what went wrong and change his approach. Improve his performance. Tell him how awful it will be for his sister if he lets her down. Spell out how bad that will look on her and that the success or failure of the job depends 100% on him

21 is not a man! hahahahahaha

dear lord, my father had 2 children, a mortgage and a fledging career at 20, my dh at 23 took on my dd, a mortgage and ran his own business, my son-in-law and dd were married with a child by 24 with their own business start up - it would worry me to death if my 21 year old had no ambition to get out of living in his childhood bedroom and not looking to get a job and have his own place, he should be having the time of life, not still tucking into mummys fish finger and chips tea!

@Jettoe

He is just very lackadaisical in his approach to work. It’s like he doesn’t appreciate the consequences of upsetting his employer.

And why would he? Because there aren’t any consequences. He’s got every necessity provided free of charge. What’s his incentive?

He is not a ”manchild” who expects me to do everything for him at all. He is good at doing domestic stuff for me and dad. It’s just like there is something of a mental block when it comes to when he is working.

dd not dad. Sorry predictive text mistake.

The thing is, OP, that you are allowing him to live like a child. Your approach worked with your daughter as she's sensible and is saving. It's really not working with your son.

If he had been paying rent he might have lost the first job but he would have learned a lesson which would have stopped him from losing the second job.

The fact is that he's got such a comfortable safety net that he can do whatever he wants and he won't suffer the consequences. This isn't making him an adult.

You need to rethink things.

OP - I can see what you are saying about not needing the money- but having seen friends of BIL who struggled with the move from child to adult, parents didn't help by not helping them mentally move to being responsible for their living costs. (PIL live in a commuting town for London, so when BILs friends all got jobs in London they stayed at home for a few years).

Never having to factor in rent, bills, grocery shops, made moving out hard. Many hadn't thought about what their lifestyle would really cost.

Even if its a lump sum you don't need, they are adults and should be expected to pay their fair share of electricity, gas, food, council tax etc. Not towards the mortgage, a share of other bills. Be clear thats what it is. If they moved with flatmates, they'd pay that plus rent.

It will help him move the mindset that hes an adult now and funding his lifestyle is his responsibility, not yours. If he gets benefits, that's not drinking and clothes money, but money for necessities.

Put it in a savings account and should they tell you they are looking to move out, you could then give it back as a gift towards it. But by making them budget for their own costs will help them see what life actually costs.

So how do you see his future with such an attitude?? or are you just crossing your fingers and hoping some girl will take him off your hands and put up with that level of crap....and he carries on getting sacked from jobs because there are no consequences..

Do you see him as an adult or a child?
Some 21 year old are fathers /owning own home/ served years in the forces/ getting their degree's / finishing apprenticeships..
You seem very ok with his level of helplessness and not his development as an independent adult..
What's his level of education?? Why is his getting sacked from all these jobs ok...
Do you want to keep him tied to you and dependent?? Really not a future I would want for my son...

There is a world of difference between a 26yo woman and a 21yo boy. If the ages were reversed, they'd be closer together in outlook and level of responsibility. A man doesn't become an "adult" until their mid to late twenties. He is still a child

I’ve seen some nonsense in my time on Mumsnet but this is beyond 😂😂

Maybe if you charged him rent he would be more inclined to stick with a job.

Right now he can mess up with no consequences. That is a very poor lesson to be teaching your DS

It’s like he doesn’t appreciate the consequences of upsetting his employer

Since he's had to shoulder no responsibility so far, I'd worry that he'll expect DD to "make things right" for him if he messes up yet again

As a (retired) employer myself, I'd advise DD to keep a sensible separation between them once he starts. I know you said she praised him after the offer was made, but it might be wise to row back completely while he proves himself (or not)

So he lives for with you for free and the state gives him pocket money. Who would work under those circumstances? Have a long look in the mirror - and then stop enabling his poor choices.

I was never charged rent by my mother, in the sometimes long periods that I lived back at home (up to a year). Didn't make the slightest difference to my attitude or sense of responsibility (I turned up at work on time) and just made me feel safe and loved. Although I was a bit of a nightmare, but for different reasons.

I’m not bankrolling him.

Yes, yes you are. Does he think the food he eats is free? And gas? Electricity? Tv licence? Wifi?

I knew you would say you weren't charging rent. Does he cook at least twice a week for you all?, Does he buy food? Does he do a third of the communal cleaning? Does he shop a third of the time? Does he sort out a third of the DIY? Does he do house admin? If not you are enabling this.