We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

In that same sir it of swapping information and experiences, it isn’t that long since plumbers/ builders/ electricians were not considered aspirational. Funny how things turn isn’t it. They’re also of course very very dominantly male trades. I don’t think schools are set up to train people into them, and there are few, if any, educational opportunities outside of school now. Having the resources to explore them requires knowing someone in the trades already.

Spirit!

Plus you need to be able to make a living out of it - as a standard settled person with a family, not, as a pp said, only as a single male prepared to live in sub-standard multi-occupancy rented rooms for a few years.

It's certainly a different world to mine where people are clamouring over themselves in great numbers to work in the EU. Not saying it doesnt happen or doubting people of course, but I wouldn't say its the case across the country.

@SpringisSpinning

I simply dont understand this. My family has lived and worked across the world according to each places requirements and been turned away from some, eg South Africa and visa struggles in Australia.

One lady told me if it wasn't for the EU her immigrant parents from country couldn't have settled here in low paying jobs. That was in the late 1950's!!! Before the EU commission etc was even born!!!
So no, I am not worried or concerned about paying small visas or filling out forms for my dc to move or live anywhere.

Problem is (as others have said) many companies have started demanding "EU passport required" as part of the job spec, especially if they might need an individual to be flexible as to working location.

If an individual applying for such a job hasn't got such a passport then in the current circumstances the chances are that the application will pretty much get rejected - straight in the bin, without being read. Being prepared to pay for visas or not is a bit irrelevant.

@feelingverylazytoday

FOM doesn't factor into many people's lives, OP. I think that's what you are failing to realise. Many British people are perfectly happy living, working and studying in the UK and don't feel any need to keep popping off to Europe.

This I’m in my 60’s living in a medium sized midlands city, so not a huge population but not really rural. I don’t actually know anyone at all that has gone to work/ retire in an EU country. The people I do know that have emigrated have gone to Australia and USA. Thought that was more to do with the lack of language skills than anything else.

The world is so much bigger than the EU and the U.K.
EU countries are no more special than others. There are many people from non EU countries who are able to settle in EU countries, via visas and applying for residency. There are several Americans and Australians in Germany, France and Italy, and several people from African or South American countries and Asian countries, especially Chinese, Vietnamese and Japanese people. Movement of people’s will always go on.

I’m not a brexiteer (I voted remain because I recognised the benefits with remaining in the EU) but, just don’t see the point in threads that go on and on lamenting about freedom of movement, as if the EU is the only place in the world and as of now that we don’t have EU passports we can never travel or live abroad again. If you are a usual (I.e. not a criminal or criminal record holder) citizen it should not be too difficult to get a visa, as you do for all the other countries in the world.

@Kendodd

Well if you weren't duped (I believe you) that means you knowingly and deliberate wanted to take rights away from our young people and risk the peace in NI.

This is exactly what happened....

So we now have NO FOM for ourselves and our children...

While simultaneously making it an unattractive place for European passport holders to live...

We lost loads of doctors and nurses...

Well done brexit voters... For thoroughly shooting us in the foot...

If you are a usual (I.e. not a criminal or criminal record holder) citizen it should not be too difficult to get a visa, as you do for all the other countries in the world.

In reality it can actually be chuffing difficult to get a long term working visa for many countries around the world unless you have skills that country wants and perhaps have a sponsor/job offer in place (something you often don't see mentioned in some TV programmes that sell the idea of relocation).

The beauty (or not) of FOM was that prior to Brexit a Brit could go off to somewhere else in the EU and attempt to get a job without jumping through administrative hoops before setting sail.

I know in reality many Brits didn't do that, for all sorts of reasons, but the opportunity was there, and objectively it was a relatively easy thing to do compared with the situation we are in now, and a doodle compared with trying to find a job in the rest of the world.

With regard shortage of trades people, I had a roofer booked to come see me last week (the only one I could get to even come and have a look) he didn't show up, didn't call, nothing.

@SpringisSpinning

I simply dont understand this. My family has lived and worked across the world according to each places requirements and been turned away from some, eg South Africa and visa struggles in Australia.

One lady told me if it wasn't for the EU her immigrant parents from country couldn't have settled here in low paying jobs. That was in the late 1950's!!! Before the EU commission etc was even born!!!
So no, I am not worried or concerned about paying small visas or filling out forms for my dc to move or live anywhere.

But it’s not about having to fill in a few extra forms for holidays etc. If 2 people go for a job in The EU and one has an automatic right to live and work there and one will need extra admin if everything else is equal then any right minded company would go for the easy option - ie NOT the one with a British passport. I don’t think anyone is saying you can no longer go abroad for work or pleasure but we can’t assume it will be as easy as previously.

@Heyahun

Gawd it’s such a joke ! I’m Irish and live here in the U.K. - so I’m lucky I can stay here no problem and also keep my Eu passport - my baby is due in a few days and We won’t even get it a British passport tbh just the Irish one - the British one feels useless tbh.

I would definitely get them a British passport as well, if you think theres even a 1% chance they'll want to live in the UK as an adult, learn the lesson of Windrush and take no chances. A child passport is fairly cheap, you wouldn't have to renew it, just get one and keep it then use the Irish one. You never know, it might save loads of hassle in the years to come.

@notimagain

If you are a usual (I.e. not a criminal or criminal record holder) citizen it should not be too difficult to get a visa, as you do for all the other countries in the world.

In reality it can actually be chuffing difficult to get a long term working visa for many countries around the world unless you have skills that country wants and perhaps have a sponsor/job offer in place (something you often don't see mentioned in some TV programmes that sell the idea of relocation).

The beauty (or not) of FOM was that prior to Brexit a Brit could go off to somewhere else in the EU and attempt to get a job without jumping through administrative hoops before setting sail.

I know in reality many Brits didn't do that, for all sorts of reasons, but the opportunity was there, and objectively it was a relatively easy thing to do compared with the situation we are in now, and a doodle compared with trying to find a job in the rest of the world.

FOM was indeed a wonderful thing for nice wholesome Brits who wanted to go and work in an EU country and contribute to their economy in a productive and legal way. It was also great for people coming to Britain in the same way. It was also handy for Eastern European criminals to come over, traffic their compatriots in and run them as slaves. That is what the brexiteers saw, and they didn’t like it. Like I said earlier, not getting a grip on the situation was an own goal for David Cameron.

It was also handy for Eastern European criminals to come over, traffic their compatriots in and run them as slaves. That is what the brexiteers saw, and they didn’t like it.

The idea that people voted Brexit to stop modern slavery is... Don't make me laugh. As if🙄

I'm incredibly sad for my DC.
DD1 was too young to vote in the referendum and I shall never forget her going to school the next day coming home in tears of frustration that was evident amongst her peers and teachers. They felt cheated of the rights they had been born with.
My DM lives in Spain so they've spent much of their lives splitting their time between the two countries.
They saw first hand the 'joy' of many expats at the result when we went a month later. Fortunately these were not DGM's friends but amongst those who based themselves on a primarily Brit urbanisation. Many of them voted for Brexit but now are being forced back to U.K. because they never took out residency because they assumed it wouldn't affect them. Their arrogance as outstanding. Some had lived there for years and spoke only pidgin Spanish. They are the same group moaning loudly that their small British shops have slammed up the prices, even have (had) a British butcher on the urbanisation that imported British meat. They wouldn't dream of going to local supermarkets and buying cheaper (often far superior ) Spanish meats for half the price. Madness!
My sadness ( and yes I am thinking about the affects on my family) is that DD1will be spending a year from September at uni in Spain as part of her course. Eurasmus as gone (we didn't have to leave the scheme but it was all or nothing - point proving) so financing her year is up in the air. The new Turing scheme U.K.is proposing to replace it hasn't even been put in place. We've been assured it will be by September but in what form we and her uni have no idea.
Fortunately her uni and host uni have very generous reciprocal agreements and home uni has assured those on her course they have funds to ensure their students are no worse off.
But it's really unclear wether she will be able to work on her student visa, an important aspect to her year away as far as DD is concerned.
Her generation will never forgive those who voted to restrict their rights they were born with and assumed would stay with them throughout their lives.
It's as if we're happy to revert to a little England mentality just as the word is getting broader.
As for Ireland I have no words. I have friends in NI who are terrified of their future and the troubles that dominated their childhoods and hoped that their children would never see the likes again.
People need to think what they've taken away from a whole generation.

@Kendodd

With regard shortage of trades people, I had a roofer booked to come see me last week (the only one I could get to even come and have a look) he didn't show up, didn't call, nothing.

That’s standard - ass hole tradesmen irrespective of nationality!

I would love for schools to focus on trade and to increase apprenticeships rather than just ship in a load of cheap labour. I’d rather my children gain a skill than a degree tbh!

Of course many great drs and nurses have come from the EU, - other people have come across and taken roles in sports direct. Some great drs come from inside the U.K., some from Africa some from Asia. It’s not that complicated people are people, some good, some bad, some beneficial some detrimental- people just wanted the UK to have a say on who could and could not live here before entering.

The idea that freedom of movement to Australia, China, Japan and no doubt India will prove a fit replacement for FoM with our next door neighbours is laughable and again smacks of not knowing how the other half or under 50s generation live, again (Or caring, but that will guarantee the continued drive for independence from the more distant and less advantaged parts of the country.). I could not afford passports and travel to those neighbours as a youngster, Asia and Australia would be a save-up-for-5-years trip now. The times when Australia were welcoming all and sundry and asking for immigration have long gone. Movement from the supposedly “poorer” countries of Asia will continue to increase in one way only, i.e. to here.

I think the Midlands btw is particularly deprived now - we are used to thinking of it as relatively affluent compared to the north but wages/ housing ratio has rendered that out of date. There’s a lot of anger there.

FGS ending FOM doesn't mean you can never move to, work in or visit Europe. It just makes it a bit more difficult.

As someone who travelled globally when younger, including working in the US and Australia, it's not a major hardship.

@drivinmecrazy

I'm incredibly sad for my DC. DD1 was too young to vote in the referendum and I shall never forget her going to school the next day coming home in tears of frustration that was evident amongst her peers and teachers. They felt cheated of the rights they had been born with. My DM lives in Spain so they've spent much of their lives splitting their time between the two countries. They saw first hand the 'joy' of many expats at the result when we went a month later. Fortunately these were not DGM's friends but amongst those who based themselves on a primarily Brit urbanisation. Many of them voted for Brexit but now are being forced back to U.K. because they never took out residency because they assumed it wouldn't affect them. Their arrogance as outstanding. Some had lived there for years and spoke only pidgin Spanish. They are the same group moaning loudly that their small British shops have slammed up the prices, even have (had) a British butcher on the urbanisation that imported British meat. They wouldn't dream of going to local supermarkets and buying cheaper (often far superior ) Spanish meats for half the price. Madness! My sadness ( and yes I am thinking about the affects on my family) is that DD1will be spending a year from September at uni in Spain as part of her course. Eurasmus as gone (we didn't have to leave the scheme but it was all or nothing - point proving) so financing her year is up in the air. The new Turing scheme U.K.is proposing to replace it hasn't even been put in place. We've been assured it will be by September but in what form we and her uni have no idea. Fortunately her uni and host uni have very generous reciprocal agreements and home uni has assured those on her course they have funds to ensure their students are no worse off. But it's really unclear wether she will be able to work on her student visa, an important aspect to her year away as far as DD is concerned. Her generation will never forgive those who voted to restrict their rights they were born with and assumed would stay with them throughout their lives. It's as if we're happy to revert to a little England mentality just as the word is getting broader. As for Ireland I have no words. I have friends in NI who are terrified of their future and the troubles that dominated their childhoods and hoped that their children would never see the likes again. People need to think what they've taken away from a whole generation.

This isn't just directed at your post driveinmecrazy but I'm sick of reading about the 'rights' of children having been taken away to travel freely, etc. They may have been born when FOM was possible but it is the shitshow government who made those rights disappear by forcing a Referendum that should never have been in play.

I voted to remain, work for a European company and my concerns are with NI and the peace process. My kids will cope with visas if and when that becomes necessary. Not idea but not the drama it's being presented as either.

When is the moaning going to reach saturation point?

People need to vote in a proper government (if one ever presents itself) and we need to stop railing and turning on each other. As for the 'I'll never forgive' brigade, I have no time for them.

@Unhomme

FGS ending FOM doesn't mean you can never move to, work in or visit Europe. It just makes it a bit more difficult.

As someone who travelled globally when younger, including working in the US and Australia, it's not a major hardship.

It is a major problem if you can’t get a visa. I know young people recently who have been denied visas for Russia, even though they had job offers. Just one example of how hard it is.

FGS ending FOM doesn't mean you can never move to, work in or visit Europe. It just makes it a bit more difficult

It is very difficult, visas, health insurance, language, its for the most sought after of workers, not someone wanting to work in a bar or as a bicycle mechanic.

As someone who travelled globally when younger, including working in the US and Australia, it's not a major hardship

Living in the past.

Its very sad really. But it is still possible to work in the EU, you just need a visa, but thats the case for many people who emigrate to work in the EU. Or you can stay for up to 3 months without a secure job to go to. And I believe that in most EU countries, you can apply for citizenship after 5 years residence if non-EU (or is it 10 years - perhaps someone could clarify).

The people I see it really affecting are people who own holiday homes and want to stay in them for more than 3 months of the year but who haven't applied for leave to remain.

But it is still possible to work in the EU, you just need a visa,

True, but there's often the caveat that a visa for a specific job may not be granted to somebody from outside the EU if there is an EU national available who can perform the same function.

And I believe that in most EU countries, you can apply for citizenship after 5 years residence if non-EU (or is it 10 years - perhaps someone could clarify).

The citzenship angle varies but getting it is not a given - you may be able to apply but there are often lots of hoops to jump through and there's absolutely zero guarantee that it will be granted.

It is a major problem if you can’t get a visa. I know young people recently who have been denied visas for Russia, even though they had job offers. Just one example of how hard it is.

Russia isn't a good example, can you not fathom why it might be problematic?

This thread nicely sums up the chasm between "intelligent" remainers and those who voted leave.

Remainers can't grasp the fact that for many leavers, living and working and even holidaying abroad are largely irrelevant. Nobody in their family is likely to want to go abroad on a long term basis. Nobody in their family "takes a year out" "to go travelling" around Europe. That's a luxury they can't afford. To them, FoM meant more competition for social housing, it meant eastern Europeans coming over and taking low-paid and low-skilled jobs. FoM had no benefits for them, but lots of obvious drawbacks.