We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

@Kendodd

Well if you weren't duped (I believe you) that means you knowingly and deliberate wanted to take rights away from our young people and risk the peace in NI.

Not at all. That's false logic.

Most people in Manchester are perfectly happy living and working in Manchester, why would anybody need the right to go and live in Newcastle instead. Let's take it away from them.

@VeniVidiWeeWee

So how's it working out for you ? You must be so proud of how it's all going so well 👏

I'm fine thanks.

@amicissimma Our travel arrangements with the other 165 do not matter near as much - the most popular destinations by far for British residents travelling abroad are other European countries. The USA is the only non-European country ranking in the top 10, and it's well below Spain, France and Italy.

There were over 70m trips to the EU by UK residents in 2019 (before all hell broke loose). So it would appear that - even accounting for multiple trips by the same people - FOM mattered to a huge number of us.

Both myself and DD (16) are gutted about ending FOM. She wanted to be able to study, work and maybe even live abroad but obviously this is far more complicated now.
Not to mention the UK's withdrawal from the Erasmus programme- another truly regressive step for young people. So many benefitted from the programme and now it's just another closed door. Boris has said we'll have our own "worldclass" (as ever) programme in replacement but I doubt it will come to fruition any time soon, and certainly not with the same leverage Erasmus has.

I think right now young people have a desire to travel and settle abroad more than ever. It's devastating such opportunities are more closed off to them- they didn't even get a say in that fgs!

FOM between UK and EU was mutually beneficial to each party. It was those coming from non-EU countries that were truly the 'issue'.
I don't see why ending freedom of movement should be celebrated.

My DS is working in a summer scheme in Italy , all travel, accommodation & food funded by EU... something to do with nature research. His team is made up of 25 18-30 year olds all from different EU counties.

Not open to UK applicants - he’s a dual citizen & could use his ID card.

My DD was born in Spain, and her father and half-sister live there, but she's not a citizen, so she would have no right to live there if she wanted to as an adult.

Whereas my nephew, who was born in the UK to parents who were also both born in the UK, would have the right to live in Spain as he has Irish grandparents.

They're both 2, so obviously not their fault, I just find it a strange (and infuriating) contrast. In my more optimistic moments I hope that there will be so much backlash from business owners about the red tape that we end up having to rejoin the SM and CU again before my DD and nephew are adults.

And don't tell me that emigrating to the EU now will just involve 'filling in an extra form'.

YANBU. At all.

@Mamamia456

OP - You're looking at this from your own experience though. When I was younger I had no desire whatsoever to work and live in another country. It just didn't appeal to me, never even crossed my mind in fact. I don't know anyone else who wanted to do that either. We were more interested in working in London as that's where we could earn good money.

I didn't either, lots went to Oz though and a few have stayed, and America and Canada. None to an EU country, although I can see why this change is bad as it's taken the choice/option away.

BlackForestCake

Most people in Manchester are perfectly happy living and working in Manchester, why would anybody need the right to go and live in Newcastle instead. Let's take it away from them.

Excellent post.

I was reading about how applicants to language degrees are down even further this year because of the uncertain if being able to spend a year studying the language abroad. The government's "Turing" programme, which only has short-term arrangements anyway,doesn't even mention language skills. It's focussed on promoting Britain's "global" image, although as the government doesn't like to encourage students to come here they probably won't be much exchanging going on anyway. The UK's dire reputation for language skills is going to get even worse. I'm sure most people won't care, but English is not going to remain the world's dominant language forever.

Schrodingers there’s someone on another post complaining they’ve got to pay import tax on goods from Russia and Brexit is to blame.
Would he/she pass your exam?

Do you think voters should take tests before they are allowed to vote in general elections? Other referenda?
Or just the EU referendum?

Could you give some example questions that will be in this test?

@Andante57

Schrodingers there’s someone on another post complaining they’ve got to pay import tax on goods from Russia and Brexit is to blame.
Would he/she pass your exam?

Brexit has also affected VAT on imports from non EU countries. So it looks like the poster on the other thread complaining about this would pass the exam.

Quote from article below. - And the way VAT is accounted for has also changed. For importing, this VAT change affects trade with both EU and non-EU countries.

www.sage.com/en-gb/blog/customs-and-vat-after-brexit/

@Andante57

Schrodingers there’s someone on another post complaining they’ve got to pay import tax on goods from Russia and Brexit is to blame. Would he/she pass your exam?

Do you think voters should take tests before they are allowed to vote in general elections? Other referenda?
Or just the EU referendum?

Could you give some example questions that will be in this test?

Well certainly would be a good question "Are you aware that your future travel/relocation plans from the UK will be affected" (as that's what was in the post I originally wuoted) Maybe something like "Is India in EU" since I saw people saying they voted so "the Indians" stop coming👀 "Do you know what EU is?" Might have been good one too. "Are you aware there will be tarrifs on goods coming to and from UK?"

Maybe then we wouldn't have so many people surprised they need to sort theor residency when living abroad, that there will be vat on packages, that things will get more ecpensive and that "the insians" are still coming (sorry to Asian people, I obviously don't agree with this sentiment, but just example of how little some people knew about the referendum...)

Schrodingers thank you for your reply.

I have seen the suggestion for a test before citizens could vote in the EU referendum several times before on mumsnet and I have to say I’m surprised by the double standards.
If the Tory party were to suggest voters were to be tested before they could vote there would be uproar that would make the poll tax riots pale into insignificance.
Yet there are few objections on these threads.

Difference being, in a general election you vote for a person to understand and decide policy for you. In the referendum we were expected to understand and decide policy ourselves. And no, I wouldn't vote for a test but I could scream at the stupidity, the number of times I've heard people say they voted Leave because they don't want any more Muslims coming here. Also, it seems the poster on the other thread complaining about VAT wasn't to stupid to pass any test, as your pp tried to imply.

Do you think voters should take tests before they are allowed to vote in general elections? Other referenda?
Or just the EU referendum?

Well, with a GE, we leave the important decisions to those who (hopefully) know best, we vote on a set of principles based on a manifesto or out of party loyalty AND 5 years later, we can change our decision.

The EU referendum is, to all intent & purposes, irreversible..... and most people who voted, leave or remain, did so based on misinformation.
e.g Bojo telling us all that living working and travelling in europe will not change, Hannon saying we'll stay in the SM, the lies told on turkey joining the EU and millions coming to the UK, instead its millions of HK citizens.

I can't think of anything that remainers were misled on but there must be something.

Sorry cross post Kenn

@Andante57

This is why some kind of tests should be done before voting🙄

Such as?

Apparently the ability to fill out a seasonal work visa.

All of my friends who worked abroad did so in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. Some have stayed and made their lives there. So I’m sure working and living in Europe will still be possible.

@Sapho47
Could you please send me a link to a work visa, in case i fancy working in a bar in Denmark for a few years?

@Kendodd

People who voted for Brexit knew exactly what ending FoM would mean Actually, I'm not sure they did. I know a couple of people who voted Leave because of 'immigrants' who are now shocked to learn they won't be able to retire to Spain as planned.

To offer a counterpoint, Spain can now decide if it is actually worthwhile to have British expats spend their retirement years in the country. If it is profitable, they’ll hand out visas like South American countries do to American retirees. If not ... well, that’s the risk

I have no qualifications btw and don't speak Danish, figured I'd pick it up while working.

[quote Norwester]@amicissimma Our travel arrangements with the other 165 do not matter near as much - the most popular destinations by far for British residents travelling abroad are other European countries. The USA is the only non-European country ranking in the top 10, and it's well below Spain, France and Italy.

There were over 70m trips to the EU by UK residents in 2019 (before all hell broke loose). So it would appear that - even accounting for multiple trips by the same people - FOM mattered to a huge number of us.[/quote]
Are you talking about holidays? I’m pretty sure we can go on holiday wherever we want, Covid permitting.