We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

It seems more like an attempt to label Leave voters as 'wealthy' so that everyone can despise them at will.
I don't hate wealthy people. I do think it's a complete misrepresentation to paint Leave voters as downtrodden poor people. Comfortable home county pensions voted Leave in droves. These people have had the easiest passage through life in human history, most of which would have been inside the EU/EEC. Unfortunately this doesn't fit the narrative though. The bigger predicter of vote was age not wealth.

@turquoisewaters fom was never an absolute. It was always possible to refuse entry to those with criminal records.

Interesting - April 2020;

Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic broke European law when they failed to give refuge to asylum seekers arriving in southern Europe, often having fled war in Syria and Iraq, the EU’s top court has ruled.

The decision to impose mandatory quotas of asylum seekers was taken in the teeth of fierce opposition from Hungary and the Czech Republic. After the nationalist Law and Justice party was elected in October 2015, Poland joined its neighbours in opposing the scheme.

countries, such as Germany and Sweden, which took in large numbers of refugees, have argued it is unacceptable for member states to shirk the task of easing the strain on the most-affected EU countries.

www.theguardian.com/law/2020/apr/02/eu-court-rules-three-countries-czech-republic-hungary-poland-broke-law-over-refugee-quotas

I wish we'd taken in more refugees. Instead we had Nigel Farage and his followers jumping up and down shouting "they're not coming here".

@Kendodd

I wish we'd taken in more refugees. Instead we had Nigel Farage and his followers jumping up and down shouting "they're not coming here".

Exactly. It makes me ashamed to be British.

There has been a lot of analysis of the result. A lot of the statistical techniques used are the ones (and with the same sample sizes) that very effectively failed to predict the actual outcome of the referendum.

The way people express regional differences "Scotland/NI voted remain" also ignores significant support for leave in these areas - it was a close thing overall. To listen to some people, you'd imagine no-one in Scotland or NI voted leave when they clearly did in large numbers.

It seems more like an attempt to label Leave voters as 'wealthy' so that everyone can despise them at will.

Add in that it was an older demographic that voted Leave and you can kill two birds with one stone there - it’s the retired that are sitting on the property wealth, so they didn’t have anything to lose by voting Leave.

Now remind me again about your earlier point about the privileged that can afford decent housing regardless of shortage?

For me, national sovereignty would sum it up

I know you've said you won't go into details, but in four years nobody has, which is part of the problem. How do you explain how this abstract concept trumps the real concerns and problems people are facing?

My sister is one of the 400k +who lost their job to Brexit so I would love it if you could so I can reassure her that her misery is worth it. Maybe her landlord will take patriotism in lieu of rent.

@Kendodd

I wish we'd taken in more refugees. Instead we had Nigel Farage and his followers jumping up and down shouting "they're not coming here".

How many refugees would have been enough for you?

Oh and what did huge Brexit support Katie Hopkins say at the time? Something about not caring how many children died, she drown them all if it was up to her?

[quote HOkieCOkie]@9toenails I don’t care to be honest lol.[/quote]
Well I knew that, of course. But I was not talking to you.

And remember Nigel Farage's Breaking Point poster so he could stir up some racism? The migrant crisis was an absolute gift to the Leave campaign, I'm not sure they'd have won without it.

Have you see pictures of Farage manning the white cliffs on the look out for migrant boats? He made such a big thing that Brexit would stop landings, all lies of course, but plenty of people believed him and are now all over Vote Leave sites shocked to see they're still coming.

Add in that it was an older demographic that voted Leave

Don't we vote by secret ballot?

@Kendodd

Have you see pictures of Farage manning the white cliffs on the look out for migrant boats? He made such a big thing that Brexit would stop landings, all lies of course, but plenty of people believed him and are now all over Vote Leave sites shocked to see they're still coming.

Funnily enough, Farage’s pronouncements on fish and parading up and down the Thames on a boat didn’t work out so well for UK fisherman either.

The UN should have stepped in in 2015 and the rich world should have all had quotas. Even if every single person in Syria had left, the rich world could have accommodated them and not even noticed.

This tired trope is only trotted out by people determined to label others as racists and bigots

Which is in itself now a tired trope- that all leave voters made a carefully thought out vote and that racism and xenophobia played absolutely no part whatsoever. No siree not one bit how very dare you for suggesting it

Quite a significant portion of the leave voters I know actually are bona fide racists and they can basically fuck off as far as I’m concerned.

Another significant portion is the 70+ very wealthy retirees, I have quite a few in my family. They’ve made their money and now they want to draw up the draw bridge and shut out the outside world, and live in little england.

@turquoisewaters

Add in that it was an older demographic that voted Leave

Don't we vote by secret ballot?

So you’ve never heard of exit polling?

Lord Ashcroft:

The older the voters, the more likely they were to have voted to leave the EU. Nearly three quarters (73%) of 18 to 24 year-olds voted to remain, falling to under two thirds (62%) among 25-34s. A majority of those aged over 45 voted to leave, rising to 60% of those aged 65 or over. Most people with children aged ten or under voted to remain; most of those with children aged 11 or older voted to leave.

they're not coming here

What part of 'the infrastructure of a tiny island is bursting at the seams and already cannot cope with an influx of 2million+ people' can we not understand?

So you’ve never heard of exit polling

I have heard of people not wanting to publicly admit what they have voted (e.g. the shy Tory effect)

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@turquoisewaters fom was never an absolute. It was always possible to refuse entry to those with criminal records.[/quote]
As usual, it's not simple.
There was a theoretical right under FOM to refuse entry to criminals - but the directive specifically said "previous criminal convictions shall not in themselves constitute grounds for taking such measures" - so convictions of a particular flavour (eg rape or murder) couldn't be used to deny entry.
A judge could rule against admission of someone who they thought posed a threat.
In practice, many of the criminals who came here under FOM and committed further crimes had previous records that were unknown and unavailable to UK authorities - there was no system before 2012 and we were considering joining a more extensive sharing system but then voted to leave.

The UN should have stepped in in 2015 and the rich world should have all had quotas

What? There are sovereign states around the world who would not appreciate being dictated to by the UN on what they should or should not be doing

How interesting that specific benefits cannot be defined.

@Lonelycrab

This tired trope is only trotted out by people determined to label others as racists and bigots

Which is in itself now a tired trope- that all leave voters made a carefully thought out vote and that racism and xenophobia played absolutely no part whatsoever. No siree not one bit how very dare you for suggesting it

Quite a significant portion of the leave voters I know actually are bona fide racists and they can basically fuck off as far as I’m concerned.

Another significant portion is the 70+ very wealthy retirees, I have quite a few in my family. They’ve made their money and now they want to draw up the draw bridge and shut out the outside world, and live in little england.

You've added an extrapolation to my post. I don't seek to deny the presence of bigots on either side of the argument. Arch remainer Jeremy Clarkson is hardly known for his inclusive views, just for one example, and Farage and Hopkins are lamentable.

@lifeturnsonadime

How interesting that specific benefits cannot be defined.

Not really - if you voted remain you refuse to accept any benefits exist - that's fair enough.