We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

My young DC - didn’t go to university- has a job in an East European country. Pays much less than minimum wage in the U.K. Went there because they were offered a job there

But that's the point, perhaps if there hadn't been FOM he wouldn't have had to go abroad and would have found a higher paying job in the UK?

I have dual citizenship, hold an EU passport and am fluent in two European languages.

I think there's a bit of wilful naivety in this thread. Once you go beyond working the tourist resorts, living and working in another EU country is not a bed of roses by any means. And outside of multinationals where the lingua franca is English, you can pretty much forget working anywhere decent if you don't speak the language. Life can become extremely alienating and isolating after a year or so: why do you think alcoholism is so rife in retired expat communities?

Just like Britain, there can be animosity (sometimes quite vicious) towards non-locals taking jobs and housing. The culture of your peer group can be massively different, even if you were brought up in the general culture of the country.

People really do not comprehend how open Britain actually is to foreign nationals in residence, compared to other EU countries. And not only that, just how tolerant of difference and diversity Britain is. I have a lot of European friends who came to the UK, purely to be able to live the life they wanted because they simply could not live that way in their home country. And it wasn't always a question of alternative lifestyles.

We went to live and work in DH's home country for a few years in the noughties. Woah, it was an experience. I now know why his parents got the hell out. Once you got below the surface, it was like going back to the 50s (in some aspects, it was almost medieval). The cultural gender roles were massively restrictive, hierarchies were carved in stone ...

Sometimes I have a wobble about Brexit when I think of DD, but then I get pragmatic and wonder where she would go and what she would do anyway? I certainly wouldn't advise her to live and work in my mum's or DH's parents home countries, so anywhere else, she'd have to learn the language and probably marry local if she wanted to build a sustainable life in a non-tourist area.

The one thing that makes me happy about Brexit is the fact that well have more immigration from Asia and Africa and I just can't wait for this to dawn on certain people, they're going to be fuming about it.

@Lemonsyellow

Sorry to hear about your situation but sadly it's not unusual.

Many countries (including the likes of the US and Aus) are not happy to accept Brits simply on the basis of them having even quite high level professional qualifications.

It still seems hard for many to shake off the "work visas - easiest thing in the world" rhetoric.

And all this so called 'taking our jobs' there's actually a massive skills shortage in building trades and care work

These jobs can be done by UK nationals.

I know plenty of builders who are British, they don't overcharge and do an excellent job. When I was younger I worked in a care home and most nurses were British.

I’m glad it’s ended, I have no issue with anyone wanting to come and make a life here. But we’re now no longer an open door for every criminal and benefit scrounger going.

most nurses were British

No one was complaining or thinking the job was beneath them.

Sometimes I have a wobble about Brexit when I think of DD, but then I get pragmatic and wonder where she would go and what she would do anyway? I certainly wouldn't advise her to live and work in my mum's or DH's parents home countries, so anywhere else, she'd have to learn the language and probably marry local if she wanted to build a sustainable life in a non-tourist area.

Well wouldn't it be nice if she could make that choice for herself instead of having it taken away from her.

@turquoisewaters

My young DC - didn’t go to university- has a job in an East European country. Pays much less than minimum wage in the U.K. Went there because they were offered a job there

But that's the point, perhaps if there hadn't been FOM he wouldn't have had to go abroad and would have found a higher paying job in the UK?

No. Couldn’t get a job in the U.K. So went abroad. Cost of living is less there, so it’s a liveable wage in a capital city there. If they can stay and develop a career there, depending on how Brexit works out with visas etc, they won’t return to the U.K.

I meant in general terms. Where I am a job must be advertised only to Eu member nationals for x number of months before it will can be offered to third country nationals unless a specific (gov defined) skill or qualification is needed. Or you can invest £££ in a local company.

@HOkieCOkie

I’m glad it’s ended, I have no issue with anyone wanting to come and make a life here. But we’re now no longer an open door for every criminal and benefit scrounger going.

Baby and bathwater....

Regardless, nothing to stop any foreign crims coming here in the future, easier in fact as less checks now.
UK gives 6 months visa free to almost anyone who wants to come here, plenty of time to disappear.

Its also become harder to deport people back to europe.

@Kendodd

And all this so called 'taking our jobs' theres actually a massive skills shortage in building trades and care work. Cleaners around here (if you can find one to squeeze you in) are on £15 ph and I'm not in the south east. Theres another thread at the moment with a poster complaining about wanting £26 ph for weeding.

The trades shortage is a result of systemic failures in the old training system. The problem was that young people would go to college to learn, say, plastering or plumbing, but wouldn't be able to qualify without an apprenticeship to a working professional.

In many areas, tradesmen were reluctant to take on an apprentice because legislation meant they had to pay NMW when the lad would probably not do much more than make tea for the first six months or so.

So lots of young people got stuck. They'd done the college work, got the NVQs, but couldn't get onto the next step of the ladder to properly qualify as plasterers or plumbers.

That's why there was a shortage, and in order to solve it, government opened the doors to the EU8ers, hence the phenomenon of the Polish plumber (which caused further problems because Poland trains to different technical specs to Britain).

And this, in turn, bolstered the Brexit vote and antagonism to EU8 migration, because Britain essentially imported workers to do jobs that its own training system and legislation prevented British youths from qualifying for.

easier in fact as less checks now

Why less checks?

Also, if the system is not fit for purpose, now we can tighten it up as we see fit (the whole point of sovereignty)

Baby and bathwater

'Bathwater' would mean serious organised crime in this instance. It's not something to speak of lightly

because Britain essentially imported workers to do jobs that its own training system and legislation prevented British youths from qualifying for

This is one of the first things that needs to be addressed in all sectors

@turquoisewaters

Baby and bathwater

'Bathwater' would mean serious organised crime in this instance. It's not something to speak of lightly

And leaving Europol, Eurokust, the European Arredt warrant and access to the (real time) Schengen Information System (accessed half a billion times a year) land DNA, vehicle reg and fingerprint criminal databases and the right to make a European Investigation Order which legally obliges EU police to gather requested evidence by a deadline, combined with Britain's lack of ability to track people in the uk due to not having ID cards helps how exactly?

Yes Britain will be able to request cooperation, but local police forces will no longer be obliged to prioritise that when they may have something more pressing on.

@turquoisewaters

Baby and bathwater

'Bathwater' would mean serious organised crime in this instance. It's not something to speak of lightly

The UK hasn't stopped serious organised crime from non EU countries has it? Albanian gangs, people trafficking form asia/africa and europe.

UK couldn't stop 2 Russian assassinations, one successful, in the UK, involving cross border smuggling of plutonium and nerve agent.

You people live in some sort of parallel universe, where the UK rules the waves and the sight of a british bobby, sends terror into anyone who means us harm......

Leaving the EU makes tackling criminality even harder.

@Kendodd

Sometimes I have a wobble about Brexit when I think of DD, but then I get pragmatic and wonder where she would go and what she would do anyway? I certainly wouldn't advise her to live and work in my mum's or DH's parents home countries, so anywhere else, she'd have to learn the language and probably marry local if she wanted to build a sustainable life in a non-tourist area.

Well wouldn't it be nice if she could make that choice for herself instead of having it taken away from her.

But it's a false choice.

In reality, it's extremely difficult to learn another language to near fluency post-18 while dealing with everyday working life, and build a sustainable life in a non-tourist area in another EU country.

The only Brits I have known to make it work long term, outside the tourism industry, are those who've gone to Germany, and even then there can be constant issues with cultural mismatch.

When you are young, if you are a student on a year's exchange or working in tourist bars, there's a hellova a lot of infrastructure around you to support the experience. But when you get outside of those situations, that support is just not there.

Sometimes I have a wobble about Brexit when I think of DD, but then I get pragmatic and wonder where she would go and what she would do anyway? I certainly wouldn't advise her to live and work in my mum's or DH's parents home countries, so anywhere else, she'd have to learn the language and probably marry local if she wanted to build a sustainable life in a non-tourist area.

Why would she have to probably marry local if she wanted to build a sustainable life in a non tourist area? Why would that have been her only option? It’s not for you to imagine her possible jobs. You have no idea what sort of job or career she could do yet that could have taken her all over the world. My young DC ended up doing something it would never in a million years have occurred to us they would ever do - and they have now lived in two random countries where they did not speak a word of the language. And they are not married to a local and do not work in a tourist area and do not work for some international corporation.

@HOkieCOkie

I’m glad it’s ended, I have no issue with anyone wanting to come and make a life here. But we’re now no longer an open door for every criminal and benefit scrounger going.

Not the least awful, dispiriting aspect of Brexit is being effectively imprisoned in a community with people who talk of ' open door for every criminal and benefit scrounger going' and the like.

You probably think that way, HOkie (or why would you say it?) So you will not understand the sadness and alienation I feel at this incarceration. I know others do, though.

Sartre's Huis Clos comes to mind. There is more than one way in which l' enfer, c'est les autres .

And leaving Europol, Eurokust, the European Arredt warrant and access to the (real time) Schengen Information System

What's the point of having all this access if you are forced to allow people in regardless?

The fact is that it has not been useful so far and crime has increased lately (in all European countries, not just the UK) is telling us something is not working.

It tells us crime is rising yes, but if you're happy to go it alone with the conservative "cut 20,000 police" government then good luck to you.

Although I can't find evidence for your "crime going up" claim - I found evidence to the contrary here so please do back it up.

It looks like the UK does suffer comparatively severely with crime, along with France and Belgium, so close cooperation with those close neighbours seems sensible.

@Packingsoapandwater
I know loads of Brits who have lived abroad long-term - 20 years. They learnt the language to fluency, but do sometimes work in English as well. They don’t work in tourist areas. I lived for five years abroad and became fluent in the language. Most EU languages are easy to learn.

@Packingsoapandwater but if you have dual citizenship to an EU country surely your DD has access to this as well? In reference to when you mention freedom of movement for your DD