We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

It is a viscous circle. When FOM opened up to the Eastern European's, tbey flooded the market as was their right which did push down the wage of low skilled or sometimes skilled jobs. Welders that could get £15 /hr now on min wage and if you can get a ton of Eastern European's to work in care homes for min wage then why not but as a result UK people don't want those jobs - not because it is beneath them but because the pay is shit. Why is the pay shit? Because the owners know they can fill the roles with Eastern European's who will work work for min wage and live in HMOs. There is not impetus to increase the wages. Can you not see how this pisses people off? It isn't about them being bitter about not being able to go to France on exchange, it is about wanting to be able to afford a week in a caravan in Skegness. And maybe some of the people who voted , don't really understand the wider implications but isn't that true when anyone makes a decisions based on their experience . Like when people vote Tory as they want lower taxes for rich people - the rich people vote for it as it will positively impact them - they don't really care if it strips back benefits for the poor. It is the same here just reverse it.

@turquoisewaters

The EEC / EC / EU was never just a “trade union

Well, let's rephrase it: it should have never been more than a trade union from the start

Then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the European Commmunities (note the plural) that the UK joined in 1973, and a lack of knowledge as to the history of those Communities.

@Emeraldshamrock

That's why it's important to have the freedom to decide on a case by case basis before the event (and being able to control numbers too so that resources are not unsustainably overstretched)
The 'free for all' approach hasn't worked. It's not a case of blocking immigration altogether

@justab0utsurviving

But opening up FOM to Eastern Europeans was nothing to do with being in the EU. Most other EU countries chose not to accept people from those countries. The U.K. was virtually alone in choosing to accept them. It was a decision made by the U.K. government.

I find it hard to feel for people who turn down a job because the salary is low so they would rather have no salary, yes.

I worked for years on NMW and climbed the ladder. I couldn't afford a week in skegness but I didn't scapegoat foreigners.

They need to vote in a govt who commits to increasing wages.

@Lemonsyellow people don't make that distinction though. It was by way of the fact that we were in the EU that made that decision possible. I am not saying that is what I think , I am just saying that is what people saw but either way it would have happened eventually anyway. Could you imagine if 1.5 million brits landed in Poland, what do you think they would say?

[quote Lemonsyellow]@justab0utsurviving

But opening up FOM to Eastern Europeans was nothing to do with being in the EU. Most other EU countries chose not to accept people from those countries. The U.K. was virtually alone in choosing to accept them. It was a decision made by the U.K. government.[/quote]
And this!!!!

The UK wanted that cheap labour!!!

Funny now that Spain doesn't want a load of right wing old fools clogging up their health care and contributing nothing. Bloody immigrants, should get back where they came from.

@QuentinInQuarantino who said they were turning them down? I am not sure I believe there are thousands of people turning down jobs in tbe UK because they are Min wage? There are media reports and anecdotal information but any real hard facts? Not everyone has the capacity to climb the ladder but that shouldn't mean they don't get a decent level of pay.

@justab0utsurviving Before the minimum wage, pay in care homes etc were still very low, with income support having to be claimed.

However, your argument begs the question... increase the min wage? so that UK citizens will rush to fill these jobs?

Maybe that doesn't happen because govt funds care so badly that CH's & councils can't afford to pay? and that we have an aging population and less younger people than in previous generations?

Also, how do you explain areas, like mine, with low levels of immigration, yet still have very low wages and shocking housing shortages?

Any decent welder will be on far more than mw.

@randomer and that is where you lose any high ground as no one here has said that.

It isn't specific to care homes exclusively. I am talking more broadly than that.

Most other EU countries chose not to accept people from those countries

Which countries are not accepting them? Or is it a roadmap type approach?

Total jobs puts the average wage for a welder at £25k, more than a newly qualified nurse, who will have 50k of debt, has done a 1000 hrs of no pay placement and 3 years at uni plus will be on shift.

That's why it's important to have the freedom to decide on a case by case basis before the event

Which FWIW many EU countries managed to some extent by insisting on certain language proficiencies and often also insisting on individuals having national vocational qualifications (certificates/Brevets), even for fairly basic jobs.

FOM may have caused some of the Uks problems, but the other issue is the alck of regulation of the UK labour market, something that could always have been addressed by HMG .

@randomer they have to have health insurance now and show evidence of high bank balances so it's no skin off their nose. It's probably worked out better for Spain. Also, they won't lose as many nurses (whose training Spain pays for) to the UK, and they get to charge the non-eu tax rate on any income made from rental homes owned by non-resident Brits now so it's worked out okay for them.

I'm British but benefit from FOM and my kids have both passports no I am "alright jack" but I do feel sad and bemused for my nieces and nephews.

Not everyone has the capacity to climb the ladder but that shouldn't mean they don't get a decent level of pay

No argument from me.

Ask the UK who set min wage levels and who have just reduced the proposed increases?

Nothing to with the EU.

@justab0utsurviving you said " UK people don't want those jobs - not because it is beneath them but because the pay is shit."

• I understood that to mean they were turning them down. Most people start in shittily paid crappy jobs, everything to do with cost of living and NMW and very little to do with Eastern Europeans who don't tend to stay for long, pay more into tax than they take out and don't often have big families taking school places.

Immigration is the worst reason to vote for this as Britain is an aging population and we need immigrants and will continue to import them.

Q- How does fom benefit underprivileged and/or young people?
A- fom mainly benefits underprivileged and/or young people. You’ll find that most countries are happy to welcome brits with PhDs or professional qualifications or pots of money. Bartenders/promotion workers/childcare staff not so much.

Britain is an aging population and we need immigrants and will continue to import them

Nothing wrong with this, and also nothing wrong with vetting beforehand who we need to bring in (depending on demand, availability of resources, etc)

Totally agree OP. I spent all my university holidays abroad, improving my language skills, experiencing the world, the jobs I did were similar to yours or working as an aupair.

That opportunity is now lost to my children. It was a cheap and easy way to see a bit of the world coming from a working class family.

I'd say 90% of my professional services workplace has experience of working in the EU, it would be odd for them not to have travelled/worked abroad when they were younger. Not a prerequisite for the job in anyway but more of a social status thing.

Undoubtedly it will be the working class who will be most impacted by this change, another barrier to their development.

A lot of resources are overstretched. 2million random people popping up all of a sudden is unmanageable.

Those who complain about import tax on expensive art, masters in architecture in France or work experience at skiing resorts, do they:

-send their children to private schools?
-have private medical health care?
-can afford decent housing regardless of shortage?

It's easy if you walk the streets and are observant to see why some may find that there was a problem

State school actually. She’s clever and ambitious and will probably end up paying tax in another country. Hey ho...brexit brain drain.

@newstart1234

Q- How does fom benefit underprivileged and/or young people? A- fom mainly benefits underprivileged and/or young people. You’ll find that most countries are happy to welcome brits with PhDs or professional qualifications or pots of money. Bartenders/promotion workers/childcare staff not so much.

Not true. My young DC - didn’t go to university- has a job in an East European country. Pays much less than minimum wage in the U.K. Went there because they were offered a job there.

I have a PhD. DH has a degree from Oxford. We have money. We haven’t been able to get a visa in any country to work. Most countries are not happy to accept Brits - We are over the age threshold, and we don’t have jobs that are in demand or on a shortage list, and we would need a visa. It’s really hard to get accepted.

And all this so called 'taking our jobs' theres actually a massive skills shortage in building trades and care work. Cleaners around here (if you can find one to squeeze you in) are on £15 ph and I'm not in the south east. Theres another thread at the moment with a poster complaining about wanting £26 ph for weeding.