We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

And means my NHS HCP dept are now over 50% 'developing nations' trained, having lost our great EU staff

Hold on, so you are saying that all EU staff vanished overnight, nobody could apply for permanent settlement? Why? Strange...

Don't get me wrong, our new employees are lovely- but I wouldn't want most anywhere near my healthcare

Would you want people from NZ or Australia near your healthcare?

Also, if you are implying that the qualification standards of those joining the NHS from outside the EU are not verified, have those from EU staff been scrutinised or not?

LostToucan I think you need to look at what was required under the Rome Treaty in 1957 for EEC membership and why the UK had to be forced to recognise equal pay for equal work in 1982.

So no, I don’t think the UK would have merrily skipped its way into recognising women as equal workers without a massive broom up its arse from Europe.

Considering one of the first leading cases was Price v Civil Service, with the UK Civil Service having to be forced into recognising equal opportunities for women workers by the courts, I think you're probably right.

The UK does feel like a very sexist, outdated country at times when I compare it to other European countries that I've lived in.

[quote user1471519931]@Punching yes and I'm in Scotland and I believe in democracy too so what should we do? Every single constituency here voted to remain in the EU! Despite contributing to the EU I have had my European citizenship removed! How is that democratic?[/quote]
Well because you are part of the U.K. - the U.K. voted to leave it had naff all to do with geography

The UK does feel like a very sexist, outdated country at times when I compare it to other European countries that I've lived in I can guess which countries in Europe you haven’t lived in, disgusting Far right governments who ban abortions and where being gay is illegal.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

The UK does feel like a very sexist, outdated country at times when I compare it to other European countries that I've lived in I can guess which countries in Europe you haven’t lived in, disgusting Far right governments who ban abortions and where being gay is illegal.

A quick Wikipedia check will tell you that being LGBT is legal in all 51 countries in Europe.

That's the issue with these threads. People just make stuff up out of the blue so they just don't work.

Anyone can do that.
In the UK you have to pay 200% tax.
In the EU you're expected to sacrifice your firstborn to the commission.

And it is an ironic example to choose considering civil marriage was illegal in part of the United Kingdom (NI) until LAST YEAR.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

The UK does feel like a very sexist, outdated country at times when I compare it to other European countries that I've lived in I can guess which countries in Europe you haven’t lived in, disgusting Far right governments who ban abortions and where being gay is illegal.

Very very few european countries banned abortions, Northern Ireland was one of the last to lift restrictions in 2019, to howls of protest from the Unionists. Can't find any EU countries where being gay is banned, not all have same sex marriage rights.

Compare to commonwealth countries, such as Kenya?

No one is going anywhere right now anyway. Ending FOM is a misnomer, you still have FOM, you just have to complete some paperwork that you wouldn't have had to previously. This is how it used to work before and people still lived and worked abroad. All it means is that the UK has the right to decide what kind of people it wants to visit/stay. This is no different from visiting, working or living in the US and many people have and continue to do so.

The only thing the UK ever had in common with the EU was geography and not much else. The UK is so different from mainland Europe most of the time people from the UK saw Europeans as completely different in terms of culture, attitudes and everything in between. If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere.

Apart from, as many people have already pointed out, it's not true that we have more in common with the USA - a lot of us feel closer to Europe culturally and historically (and of course, this isn't surprising given the geography) it doesn't seem that you know much about Europe at all. Why are you lumping "mainland Europe" together as if all the countries are the same? Do you think Finland has a lot in common with Italy? A very superficial idea of what the EU is actually about.

Ending FOM is a misnomer, you still have FOM, you just have to complete some paperwork that you wouldn't have had to previously.
Just not true.

The UK does feel like a very sexist, outdated country at times when I compare it to other European countries that I've lived
Jeeus don't come to Ireland then, the UK is very liberated IMO.
A friend of mine, said "we have no gays in Poland" I laughed hard until I realised she was serious "I said don't be silly" Many people have a phobia of gay people it doesn't mean no-one is gay.
AFAIK Abortion is banned at present in Poland

If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere.

Maybe but the more time I spent in the States the more I realised many Americans were (understandably) on a completely different wavelength to the Brits with regard to many things......

I think the "common language" factor gets overestimated and many of the TV shows the US exports can paint a very misleading picture of how many Americans think.

I just think people put the EU up on some sort of pedestal as if it is some supreme being bring joy to the masses when in reality it is an un democratic institution that didn't know when to stop trying to add more power and influence. It should have stopped at a trade union. And whilst FOm has only brought joy to the majority between Romania and Poland there are nearly 2million more people in tbe Uk whilst UK citizens across the whole breadth of the EU are 1.5million. People noticed and whilst it hasn't affected me in my nice middle class house and well paid job, I bet it has impacted lots of other people who frankly don't care if they can do an Erasmus exchange because all the really want it a job that pays a decent wage.

Would you want people from NZ or Australia near your healthcare? Maybe but they have better options and conditions in their home countries? Can't see them giving it up for an NHS position.

@Daphnise

Anyone would think no one ever went to or worked in Europe before we had the misfortune to be in the EU.

Well people did travel to Europe, and work, and live there- and if they want to they still can.

But not as easily That’s the point and as I have said upthread, why employ someone who needs a visa when you have an equally good candidate who doesn’t?

I bet it has impacted lots of other people who frankly don't care if they can do an Erasmus exchange because all the really want it a job that pays a decent wage

Yup, If they can't have it nobody's kid can.

So what job with a decent wage do they expect to get now the EU staff are fewer and far between? I didn't realise care work and cleaning paid so well. Or is there a hoard of unemployed law and medicine graduates just waiting for those Poles to bugger off out of the profession?

I worked in New Zealand for a while and had a great time. Young people can still travel. There may be work permits or something for the EU but I think those who want to work abroad and have useful skills will still be able to do so although with high unemployment post Covid most countries will favour their own citizens for a while

It should have stopped at a trade union

This sums it up, yes

It should have stopped at a trade union.

The EEC / EC / EU was never just a “trade union” and to try and paint it as such is a very tired trope.

I didn't realise care work and cleaning paid so well

But they are still jobs. Not everyone aspires to be a doctor or a lawyer

Who did these jobs before they were (as you say) filled up by EU nationals?

@2Rebecca what about those school leavers without any useful skills?

They could have learned a language, gained confidence, independence, made lifelong friends, experience, learnt skills but now they are unwanted.

Anyone who thinks the UK is like the US culturally just needs to look at the differences in approach to healthcare, benefits, state involvement in day to day life in general. Also, guns.

The EEC / EC / EU was never just a “trade union

Well, let's rephrase it: it should have never been more than a trade union from the start

@turquoisewaters

I didn't realise care work and cleaning paid so well

But they are still jobs. Not everyone aspires to be a doctor or a lawyer

Who did these jobs before they were (as you say) filled up by EU nationals?

I didn't say they were filled up, YOU said people voted so they could get a well paid job that a pole would otherwise have, and I asked you which job that was?