We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

[quote LostToucan]@raskolnikova

You tell me? It’s not just Covid, if that’s what you’re implying. Students that were in country prior to 1st January are being sent back to the UK to apply for visas.[/quote]
I wasn't implying anything, it was a genuine question. The article was about students on their year abroad who are being asked for, for example, £5000 in their bank accounts and navigating difficult bureaucracy.

I genuinely don't know what the other side to that could be? Wealthy students who had the financial resources for this to not be a problem? The students who also had Irish passports anyway? What balance would you like to read in such an article?

That's just the problem though. There are hundreds of minor inconveniences that taken alone aren't that bad. Pain in the arse after PITA after PITA soon becomes a bruise.

What have we got to offer our young people in exchange for this death by a thousand cuts? It's just all so pointless.

(Yes, fish and sovereignty or whatever)

Yes, fish and sovereignty or whatever

I still can't understand why some think that sovereignty is a non-relevant issue

@turquoisewaters

So pointing out that UK students studying for their year abroad in the EU will now need visas, private healthcare and financial backing is “sensationalising

How is this even news? We've known this is how it would be for many years now. Why report it as if the sky was falling and only focus on the negatives?

Why is it news?

Because we didn’t know this was happening for many years.

Johnson on 21st January 2020, responding to a question on Erasmus:

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is talking through the back of his neck. There is no threat to the Erasmus scheme, and we will continue to participate in it. UK students will continue to be able to enjoy the benefits of exchanges with our European friends and partners, just as they will be able to continue to come to this country.

Apologies raskolnikova, I didn’t mean to be snippy, but I’m fed up with the whole airbrushing the consequences of now being a third country as middle class problems.

I suspect those with resources will be able to meet the financial requirements of studying in the EU outwith Erasmus, those that don’t will be put off studying MFL or courses with a year abroad because they will struggle with the red tape.

@LostToucan

Apologies raskolnikova, I didn’t mean to be snippy, but I’m fed up with the whole airbrushing the consequences of now being a third country as middle class problems.

I suspect those with resources will be able to meet the financial requirements of studying in the EU outwith Erasmus, those that don’t will be put off studying MFL or courses with a year abroad because they will struggle with the red tape.

I actually thought you were the poster I was quoting, although now I see they haven't replied anyway.

And I completely agree with your points there.

My son should have had an Erasmus program in Europe. It was part of his degree. He didn't go as it was cancelled by Brexit.
Well I hope he never forgets this and votes accordingly.

Anyone would think no one ever went to or worked in Europe before we had the misfortune to be in the EU.

Well people did travel to Europe, and work, and live there- and if they want to they still can.

@Daphnise

Anyone would think no one ever went to or worked in Europe before we had the misfortune to be in the EU.

Well people did travel to Europe, and work, and live there- and if they want to they still can.

A lot of people who want to can't actually, and that's why we're upset about it.

Anyway, taking FoM off our young people is nothing compared to the damage Leave voters have knowingly inflicted on Ireland. Absolutely shameful.

@Daphnise

Anyone would think no one ever went to or worked in Europe before we had the misfortune to be in the EU.

Well people did travel to Europe, and work, and live there- and if they want to they still can.

Because nothing has changed since 1973 eh?

The only thing the UK ever had in common with the EU was geography and not much else. The UK is so different from mainland Europe most of the time people from the UK saw Europeans as completely different in terms of culture, attitudes and everything in between. If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere.

If Europe was on the other side of the world, the UK wouldn't even think about being in a union with it. The fact we are neighbours distorts certain peoples view on our "need" to be part of it.

I just can't keep going through life being so negative . It's a bit like all the people that started moaning we were going to lose our maternity rights without even realising that the Uk offers more than tbe mandatory EU regulations.

And people talk about workers rights without waking up to the fact that the 2 year wait for employment rights happened whilst we were in the EU and zero hours contracts came in whilst we were in the EU. So what awesome employee rights do we think the government is going to strip away? It's all hysteria and drama and until we know for sure what the program will look like or what will be required - no point getting wound up about it

If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere.

Umm. I don’t think so.

Moving to the US was a bigger culture shock than being in the Middle East for us.

The “the USA is just like the UK” is one of those things that people that have never lived in the US like to think.

zero hours contracts came in whilst we were in the EU

Zero hour contracts are generally banned or heavily restricted in most EU countries, so I’m not sure what your point is here?

Do you think the UK Government is doing us all a massive favour with such unstable employment rights?

And I think you’ll find it was membership of the EU (EEC/EC) that forced the UK to bring in equal pay for equal work for women.

If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere
You might have. I'm much closer in values to our European neighbours.

Unfortunately I fear you might be right about Tory values being closer to American though.

@Bagamoyo1

OP let’s not beat about the bush. We all know the main reason for voting to leave the EU, for most of the “leave” voters, was immigration. Yes there were some who studied economics etc, and could put forward well-informed arguments for and against Brexit - but the vote was basically won on the basis of immigration. Everyone knows that.

So it’s wrong to not include that issue in any Brexit discussion.

I work in a public facing role, and I spoke to hundreds of people in the run up to the vote, and without exception their reason for voting leave was because of the massive influx of Eastern Europeans to the area. Whilst people might be able to see themselves working in France, or retiring to Spain, or doing a exchange programme with Germany - they know for certain they won’t be doing a gap year in Slovakia, or Poland, or various other countries they’ve never even heard of. And it pissed them off - that car washes were now run by gangs , that English Big Issue sellers had disappeared , that expensive interpreters were booked for appointments that weren’t kept, that Slovenian slaves were knocking on doors in the evening selling rubbish, and so on.

Opening up the UK to Eastern European countries was what caused the leave vote to win.

I didn’t want to leave by the way, but I can at least see what the majority of leave voters were thinking. Immigration was badly managed, and ended up being a massive own-goal for David Cameron.

....And means my NHS HCP dept are now over 50% 'developing nations' trained, having lost our great EU staff, and having witnessed the big fat hole in our 'home grown' when the bursary was removed by the Tories.

Don't get me wrong, our new employees are lovely- but I wouldn't want most anywhere near my healthcare.

So yes, let's not beat about the bush.

@Andante57

Schrodingers there’s someone on another post complaining they’ve got to pay import tax on goods from Russia and Brexit is to blame. Would he/she pass your exam?

Do you think voters should take tests before they are allowed to vote in general elections? Other referenda?
Or just the EU referendum?

Could you give some example questions that will be in this test?

She would 'pass the test' because Russia has import arrangements with the EU. The U.K. doesn't. That poster knows full well Russia isn't in the EU. But hadn't understood how multifaceted and far reaching the EU's arrangements were, to the benefit of EU members.

She does now that we've marched out into the cold.

@justab0utsurviving the UK opted out of the EU working time directive...!

@LostToucan you don't think we would have implemented equality without the EU? I think it is a little sad to be so pessimistic.

And my point was that the EU hasn't really afforded us any awesome employment rights because we still have shitty zero hours and the 2 year min time in tbe UK. But I also think that with equality that the UK would have implemented these things independently anyway. Other countries don't need unions to force them to implement these changes.

@Punching yes and I'm in Scotland and I believe in democracy too so what should we do? Every single constituency here voted to remain in the EU! Despite contributing to the EU I have had my European citizenship removed! How is that democratic?

ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=706&langId=en&intPageId=205

And

Opting out of the 48 hour week
You can choose to work more than 48 hours a week on average if you’re over 18. This is called ‘opting out’.
Your employer can ask you to opt out, but you can’t be sacked or treated unfairly for refusing to do so.
You can opt out for a certain period or indefinitely. It must be voluntary and in writing.

The only thing the UK ever had in common with the EU was geography and not much else. The UK is so different from mainland Europe most of the time people from the UK saw Europeans as completely different in terms of culture, attitudes and everything in between. If anything we have far more in common with the USA than anywhere

We have more in common with USA? do we carry guns? death penalty, drive huge cars, no health service, huge racial tensions, a police force that can use shoot to kill as law enforcement with impunity, a history going back 3 or 400 years, do we have a Uk version of the Proud Boys or slightly odd religious sects?

Have we a history of peace and war with the USA going back '000s of years?

This idea that we are somehow important to the USA is why we fucked up our membership of the EU.

you don't think we would have implemented equality without the EU? I think it is a little sad to be so pessimistic.

I think you need to look at what was required under the Rome Treaty in 1957 for EEC membership and why the UK had to be forced to recognise equal pay for equal work in 1982.

So no, I don’t think the UK would have merrily skipped its way into recognising women as equal workers without a massive broom up its arse from Europe.

And my point was that the EU hasn't really afforded us any awesome employment rights because we still have shitty zero hours

Shitty UK zero hours contracts is nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the shitty UK government.

Why not ask why other other EU countries have banned zero hours contacts but the UK hasn’t?

But that’s sovereignty, hey?