We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

That old chestnut - the UK never lost the right to exercise national sovereignty even whilst in the EU..even in areas such as immigration

We all know how difficult this would have been for anyone daring to take a step in this direction (and that's probably why the government have refrained from trying). The outcry from individuals/groups impacted, lawsuits, activism, etc would have made it virtually impossible

Much more appropriate and effective to control this through visas like the rest of the world does

Also, as per the principles of Control Theory, it's easier to prevent something from happening than detecting it and remediating it after the event

It is awful for the younger generation.
The government could have put some sort of reduced immigration before Brexit they fooled the people into thinking it was up to them to stop FOM to their UK.
I can understand why they wanted less people arriving under cutting employment and jobs especially in the building/beauty sector.
It is a disaster for the younger generation.
Though I've seen many proud brexiters on the vaccine result which is great but isn't going to fix import taxes, fish sales, FOM.
In 6 months we'll all be vaccinated then what?
You're right OP WC children will be worst off.

@Fluffien

*Not just FOM, the UK fashion industry is facing ruin, its worth £35 billion to our economy. Skills, raw materials all more expensive or no longer available.*

Clothing is one of the sectors that causes the biggest harm to the environment, can't really be upset that over production and production of fast fashion is slowing down. The companies that pay a decent wage will not struggle to recruit.

Its exporting and getting raw materials, we aren't talking the fast fashion industry. However, virtually all industries cause environmental harm, we can let them all shut down?

That old chestnut - the UK never lost the right to exercise national sovereignty even whilst in the EU..even in areas such as immigration

We all know how difficult this would have been for anyone daring to take a step in this direction (and that's probably why the government have refrained from trying). The outcry from individuals/groups impacted, lawsuits, activism, etc would have made it virtually impossible

Why? most of europe managed it, we aren't talking about sending back someone to Afghanistan.

No, Govts didn't do it because a: it wasn't a problem, most EU citizens had work and b: with no means to count numbers & no ID cards, we had no idea who was who, UK has an extremely lax labour market.

My dad voted for Brexit and is currently trying to convince himself and everyone else that Europe are the bad guys. My dad likes to travel in Europe but cannot see past the end of his nose.

There's an article this morning in the guardian link about Erasmus kids.

When I went in 2006 I got a grant. Now students have to show that they have €6000 in their bank account before they're even allowed to go. Or an income of €850 a month for Germany.

As jasjas1973 says, most countries in the EU managed some from control on those from outside their own country for matters such as long term immigration/labour market/access to benefits.

In reality the UK often chose to ignore the controls available to it (e.g. HMG was quite happy to have fast access to the labour market for those from the accession states).

Its exporting and getting raw materials, we aren't talking the fast fashion industry.
However, virtually all industries cause environmental harm, we can let them all shut down?

But clothes have been proven to cause the most harm, it doesn't matter if it's not directly fast fashion, we over produce clothes to a pretty disgusting rate here, a reduction of any sort isn't a shame to be honest.

dad voted for Brexit and is currently trying to convince himself and everyone else that Europe are the bad guys
He is not alone. I read the daimymail comments never the article just for the shock factor.

As to comments asking why "expats" should still have an interest in the UK...one example is that many of them still pay UK tax on pensions

It's more about retiring and living in France but wanting to subject your fellow nationals living in the UK to the detrimental consequences of your decision - for instance youngsters who can't find jobs, as all have been taken up, resorting to crime (houses in the UK would be burgled, not those in France). This is just an example of why I think the logic is flawed here

Completely agree - we have made our children far less desirable on the job market. It's unforgivable. And a huge shame for Labour that they didn't do more to fight against this.

most countries in the EU managed some from control on those from outside their own country for matters such as long term immigration/labour market/access to benefits

I'm not aware of any tangible evidence that this is the case

@beelzeboob stuff like Scottish kids who grew up skiing used to go abroad to work as ski instructors in the alps - their qualifications recognised

Every Irish bar on the continent used to have British and Irish staff in it - well the Irish will still be there worth their freedom of movement

Nannies and au pairs - working abroad or simply following the family on holidays on the continent easily.

Language students could easily go and spend time improving practising or volunteering at events - so much easier with the knowledge that you have the health insurance coverage and you are abs EU citizen

After uni I got a job on the continent and stayed for over a decade - cementing my language skills and starting my career. Now I am back in the UK and have a fab skill set which is highly prized but I no longer have freedom of movement to go abroad fir stints or meet clients etc. My juniors (eu) now have more flexibility than me...thanks Farage.

Also scuppering the plans of thousands of people who wanted to retire abroad or spend months at a time abroad travelling or staying with family.

I'm not aware of any tangible evidence that this is the case

Then you need to look harder...I'm not going to go through each countries rules, I'm sure you can do that.

I do know for certain France has never been as permissive to other EU nationals claiming benefits/residence etc as some claim the UK had to be.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam we are going to fight for our rights, dear

@123HereComesTheSun totally 😁

@bert3400 you mean English public

They weren't duped in Scotland but our EU citizenship was still removed

Scottish kids who grew up skiing used to go abroad to work as ski instructors in the alps - their qualifications recognised

Yup...and..according to some sources there will now be "some turbulence", though hopefully those already resident will get through things OK.

www.basi.org.uk/BASI/Home_Page_News/Brexit_Update.aspx
planetski.eu/2020/11/24/jobs-for-british-ski-instructors-resort-staff-under-threat-draft/

But of course like buying artwork this issue will only effect rich people so it'll be "another price worth paying for our sovereignty"

@Fluffien

Its exporting and getting raw materials, we aren't talking the fast fashion industry. However, virtually all industries cause environmental harm, we can let them all shut down?

But clothes have been proven to cause the most harm, it doesn't matter if it's not directly fast fashion, we over produce clothes to a pretty disgusting rate here, a reduction of any sort isn't a shame to be honest.

Are you prepared to lose your job?

Damaging industries need to modernise, brexit makes that impossible, they just disappear.

Transport, Fast food, plastics, oil/gas industries all very environmentally damaging, lets shut them all down over night shall we?

They felt cheated of the rights they had been born with

Who is born with automatic 'Freedom of Movement' rights?

Most believe people are born with Human Rights. But other rights and obligations are dependent on legislation. Legislation in this case has been amended and now rights and obligations have changed.

OP we bent over backwards to make things fairer for EU citizens. That's why that looks unbalanced. I suppose we could have given them all 7 days to leave? and still could if it would help?

Incidentally their freedom of movement is not absolute either. They can't just pick any country in the world and move there. (there are countries outside the EU)

Just wanted to let pp know that the daffodils in Cornwall are not rotting in the fields. We are surrounded by daffodil fields and the 40-50 Romanian pickers have been here since the beginning of last week out from 7.30 am to 5 pm. Not sure how this is allowed in current climate as there is no social distancing in their minibuses! Have to say that they work bloody hard and the weather here has been shocking and I doubt any locals would do it but maybe they would?

As far as I'm aware a large majority of the leave voters down here were from farming and fishing and I know it's not a popular opinion on here but I do have some sympathy for them because they naively believed that they were voting for a bigger say in their industry (and let's remember that most of us aren't risking our lives at sea every day just to make a living).

I also think that there was an element of a protest vote in voting Leave in Cornwall and that if the Tories had included a vote on no second homes instead (as if!!) about 90% of residents would have voted for that instead!!

I get really annoyed by people going on about how people should go through competency tests to vote.
Let's just stop anyone other than the landed gentry voting again shall we?
You might not like their vote, but they are entitled to use it any way they see fit. If you're that bothered by it you catch more with honey than vinegar.
Calling people dumb for exercising their right to vote in a particular way is damaging.
Seeing as you're obviously so much smarter than them, why don't you see that?
I honestly think if it wasn't for the sneers and accusations of racism etc in the lead up to the brexit vote, alot of the floating vote would have swayed towards staying.
I was a floating voter.

@turquoisewaters

most countries in the EU managed some from control on those from outside their own country for matters such as long term immigration/labour market/access to benefits

I'm not aware of any tangible evidence that this is the case

I live in Spain and couldn't access state healthcare until I was working or the dependent of someone who was...

@notimagain

I'm not aware of any tangible evidence that this is the case

Then you need to look harder...I'm not going to go through each countries rules, I'm sure you can do that.

I do know for certain France has never been as permissive to other EU nationals claiming benefits/residence etc as some claim the UK had to be.

In common with a lot of EU countries, the French benefits system is largely contributory unlike ours. Working "on the black" in France is punishable by criminal sanction. We don't have and don't want ID cards and demands to "see your papers" at every turn. Employment in France is at best nationalistic, at worst highly racist.

It's true that we have traditionally been more permissive - but that doesn't suggest we should just "be more like France" - that would be undesirable and impossible to achieve at any reasonable cost or timescale.

We're fundamentally out of step with the EU, which was the basic problem.