To think that the sex of cats is not on a spectrum?

[FindTheTruth]

Just saw this comment in the comments section of Times Article today talking about Play for Women taking taking the ONS to court for redefining sex in the census

Comment:
I thought that it was an exaggeration that there were extremists who denied sex. Then I went to a local meeting about the toilets in our town. Person after person stood up to say that segregating them by sex was wrong because “sex is reductive and must be replaced by gender identity”. My father - a retired vet - got chatting to one of them afterwards and asked if he knew humans are mammals.
“Ye-es,” he said.
“And if you were to get into breeding other mammals as pets - you would know which cat was of the sex class that could get pregnant by observing their sex organs. So you see, sex is not reductive but instead an absolute basic fundamental in the classification of mammalian life.”
His stupefying reply: “sex is a spectrum, so there would be no guarantees. In that scenario I’d buy a group of cats, leave them alone and they’d figure it out. By the way, you sound like a transphobe.”

AIBU To think that the sex of cats is not on a spectrum?

[quote YouSetTheTone]@Shannon9873 but don’t you understand that it’s the principle that matters? If ‘Brenda’ gets pushed out of first place in an egg and spoon race because the person formerly known as ‘Kevin’ beat her (by virtue of the well documented fact that biological men are stronger and faster) and this is ALLOWED in law then this gets allowed in all other areas such as:
Women in prisons sharing with men
Women in single sex spaces being vulnerable to men (including underage females, elderly and frail females, victims of sexual assaults, religious women who can’t adjust hijabs with men present etc)
Women applying for bursaries, awards and scholarships which are meant to level out disadvantages based on their sex- like time out for maternity leave etc.

If the legal principle of ‘Kevin’ in the egg and spoon race exists then you have to extrapolate it to all areas.
That’s the point. And it WILL affect all women. It already does, and the fact we’re now unable to talk freely about women, biology and sex makes it even harder to retain our sex based rights.[/quote]
I work in a incredibly male sector and there was a training course directed at women to try and retain women and also encourage more women into the sector but it included a line that said anybody you could reasonably identify as female could apply. At social events for this sector I’m outnumbered by trans women, as in there are more transwomen then women. On the whole they behave like men at the events, as in will be overly aggressive and suggestive comments to women (they are mainly lesbians). I stopped attending social events over three years ago due to them.

@lockeddownandcrazy

Sex is defined in the womb by chromosomes. Gender identity is different but cats just identify as themselves, males mate with females and that is it.

My NDNs male cats both got bonked by their randy male rabbit.🤯

I work in a incredibly male sector and there was a training course directed at women to try and retain women and also encourage more women into the sector but it included a line that said anybody you could reasonably identify as female could apply. At social events for this sector I’m outnumbered by trans women, as in there are more transwomen then women. On the whole they behave like men at the events, as in will be overly aggressive and suggestive comments to women (they are mainly lesbians). I stopped attending social events over three years ago due to them.

There's a reason transwoman behave like men.

I don't have an issue with transpeople. I do remember worrying, as an ugly (I knew that was true cos boys on the school bus kept telling me), late period starting girl, that I might not actually be fully female, so I kind of get that confusion and unease at the body you're inhabiting. I can't imagine what it must be like to go through major surgery to change your physical appearance because you feel it brings you peace, though. And then the fear of the abuse you will get for doing so.

However, I think I feel like I missed the bit where transpeople wanted to BE the opposite sex, rather than assume its characteristics or be known as trans. Especially those who don't actually want to make physical changes. I know I'm a woman, because of my biology. And the way I've often been treated because of it. If I had been brought up male, would I behave the way I do? Would I be on constant alert when out alone? Would I tense walking past a group of males, even young males, to my shame? Would I spend a large proportion of my life thinking about blood? Would i suffer imposter syndrome at work?Or would I be more outspoken; confident in my opinions? Would I expect to be listened to at home and get annoyed by others not listening to me? Would I assume that others would get out my way when walking towards them in street? Would I even question my place in the world?

I think a lot about what makes me a woman and other than biology, I don't know. My hobbies are neutral. I do tend to read books centred more on women, but is that because I assume a shared experience? I look like the stereotype of a woman,
but am tall and also make a good young man. I dress like one sometimes, but is that because I've been socialised as one? And because women's clothes fit my body better?

So we're only allowed to have an opinion if it affects us personally.
Ok right now it's affecting me because:
I'm not allowed to freely state my opinion whilst others are free to express opinions that alarm me which makes me feel disempowered and silenced.
Because the toxic nature of this schism has made me politically homeless.
Because I have to fear stating what I regard as a scientific fact in the wrong place unless I am contacted by the police.
Because I fear being put in a position where literally anything I say could be taken as being transphobic.
Because caring about other people is something that is important to my wellbeing and seeing them harmed through this ideology causes me pain.
Because my own sex identity rests entirely on my biology. I have absolutely no problem with someone expressing that their identity is experienced differently, but why should my belief be invalid? Why should I be the one to have my identity undermined by forcing me to embrace an ideology? While I have no problem calling someone whatever they ask if I interact with them, why should I change the definitions of words, which underpin my interpretation of the world, to fit in with a different belief system?

@youkiddingme

So we're only allowed to have an opinion if it affects us personally. Ok right now it's affecting me because: I'm not allowed to freely state my opinion whilst others are free to express opinions that alarm me which makes me feel disempowered and silenced. Because the toxic nature of this schism has made me politically homeless. Because I have to fear stating what I regard as a scientific fact in the wrong place unless I am contacted by the police. Because I fear being put in a position where literally anything I say could be taken as being transphobic. Because caring about other people is something that is important to my wellbeing and seeing them harmed through this ideology causes me pain. Because my own sex identity rests entirely on my biology. I have absolutely no problem with someone expressing that their identity is experienced differently, but why should my belief be invalid? Why should I be the one to have my identity undermined by forcing me to embrace an ideology? While I have no problem calling someone whatever they ask if I interact with them, why should I change the definitions of words, which underpin my interpretation of the world, to fit in with a different belief system?

Wow - you’ve nailed it one post. Absolutely brilliant, I couldn’t agree more.

@IrenetheQuaint

I actually had this very argument (well, I think I used the example of sheep) with some trans rights activists online the other day, so it is plausible.

I would do the same.

Please please can someone explain why defending women's safety and dignity or talking about FGM as a practice which harms girls, is transphobic?

A vet knows what sex an animal is and treats them accordingly. How do doctors feel about the assertion that a transwoman is a woman or a transman is man?

twitter.com/planet_eltern/status/1362713672737583112

"Please please can someone explain why defending women's safety and dignity or talking about FGM as a practice which harms girls, is transphobic?"

No explanation possible as it is inexplicable. The only possible explanation for people who can tweet stuff like the above tweet is that they are absolutely nuts

Nora Imlau's reply is the tweet I am referring to." How transphobic of Hibo Wardere not to include transwomen when talking about FGM" Absolutely nuts!!!!!!

That Nora woman is a nutcase! Insisting that if you refer to women you have to say cis women. Why is that trans women can be women but women can’t be women - we have to be cis women. It’s disgusting

That Nora woman is the crux of the TRA issue, bleating on bollocks like an evangelical fundamentalist. All the conviction, none of the basic sense, intelligence or facts to back it up.

@youkiddingme

So we're only allowed to have an opinion if it affects us personally. Ok right now it's affecting me because: I'm not allowed to freely state my opinion whilst others are free to express opinions that alarm me which makes me feel disempowered and silenced. Because the toxic nature of this schism has made me politically homeless. Because I have to fear stating what I regard as a scientific fact in the wrong place unless I am contacted by the police. Because I fear being put in a position where literally anything I say could be taken as being transphobic. Because caring about other people is something that is important to my wellbeing and seeing them harmed through this ideology causes me pain. Because my own sex identity rests entirely on my biology. I have absolutely no problem with someone expressing that their identity is experienced differently, but why should my belief be invalid? Why should I be the one to have my identity undermined by forcing me to embrace an ideology? While I have no problem calling someone whatever they ask if I interact with them, why should I change the definitions of words, which underpin my interpretation of the world, to fit in with a different belief system?

Nailed it

I work in a incredibly male sector and there was a training course directed at women to try and retain women and also encourage more women into the sector but it included a line that said anybody you could reasonably identify as female could apply. At social events for this sector I’m outnumbered by trans women, as in there are more transwomen then women. On the whole they behave like men at the events, as in will be overly aggressive and suggestive comments to women (they are mainly lesbians). I stopped attending social events over three years ago due to them.

Those aren't lesbians.

So much insanity in the world. You do have to wonder what the future will look like, at the rate we're going now.

The way I see it, a person is either male or female. It’s not assigned it’s observed. When it comes down to toilets, changing rooms sports etc, if you were born with a vagina you use female spaces, a penis and you use male spaces. It doesn’t matter what traits you have, what gender you align with, what your pronouns are or how you dress, you do you. Sex matters and tbh it’s all that matters.

Today 17:53 Nameitychangity

Alfaix
Sex isn’t a spectrum full stop.
Women have periods, ovaries, a uterus, a vagina when they are born.
Men have testes, sperm, a penis.
Some women want to be men so they have an operation and hormones to live as men. They aren’t men but they want to be treated as such and that’s ok. We should respect that want.
Some men want to be women, so they live as women and eventually have hormones and an operation to try to be as like a woman as possible. They want to be treated like women and that’s ok. We should respect that want.
Saying they actually are women when they are men and vice versa is not ok.
I was deleted from a thread the other day for saying something similar. Yes, it's that ridiculous.
I wonder if I can extrapolate the scenario to animals? Would this be acceptable and unoffensive to those with tender sensibilities?
A male dog has its testicles removed. It is still a male dog forever in every cell of its body. A female has its ovaries and uterus removed. It is still female forever in every cell of its body.
Males can even have their penis removed in certain circumstances (see a previous post, pretty rare but it does happen). They are still males. Females can have their mammary glands removed, they are still females.
No vet would argue otherwise.
Yet here we are in a human situation and the rules are changing.

In my next life I want to be a cat.

I can’t see why true facts would be deleted? This is biology.
I have a boy cat and a girl cat. They have both been neutered and now only care about food, sleep and each other. They like purring, lying down and eating. A way forward perhaps?

Alfaix - the majority of transwomen do not in fact go on to have gender reassignment surgery. The feel that their penis is irrelevant to them being a woman. Transsexuals are now the minority within the transwomen community.

Adult Human Female = XX or Xo

Adult Human male = XY XXY XYnn

Chromosome testing is cheap and quick now.
We should not go back to the days of East German cheating

Humans who believe they can form a baby without a uterus and eggs and Male gametes are 🤯

It's like saying death is state of mind. Wont stop your corpse decomposing as biology cares not for human ideologies.

That is why my first love is science. The laws of science can not be bend to will.

For a human to be born with male DNA they can not give birth unless you introduce female DNA organs. You cant just strain and grow one from.pure will of mind.

Cats dont have voices to communicate gender identities or private health care to turn their penises into virgins, yet....

We cant really compare ourselves to other animals. They dont have gender identity, they also dont have sexual consent, child maintenance, the concept of murder, child neglect, paedophilia etc etc etc

Another day, another “let’s be unpleasant about trans people” post pretending to be an AIBU.

This one even had a fundraising link oh so casually thrown in there.

It’s a sad day when even AIBU has gone to the dogs (or the cats in this case)

Mumsnet in 2021, still claiming to be a welcoming place by parents, for parents.

Spoiler: it isn’t welcoming if you’re trans, or sympathetic to trans people, or a parent of a trans or no binary child.

We can pontificate here on mumsnet about whether we can choose to be a man or a women as much as we like, meanwhile we have a generation of teens who are "transing" for what ever reason. Moking them and calling them cheaters and sex offenders doesn't help.

The transing of whole female friendship groups is especially worrying. The reasons for that is complex and often rejection of what they are rather than what they want to be. I believe medical interventions including puberty blockers and testosterone use is still very small. Binding however is not. Research does seem to show that these girls will often change back in time. There was a thread on here not so long ago from parents of such girls. They were struggling with how to support their daughters whilst knowing that you can't change sex.

Then there are the teen boys, who again can be very confused and struggling. Can you imagine how hard it must be for them at school?

And the adult men, with all that male aggression that is on display in the transactivist world and on line.

I'm not suggesting in any way that women should give up our protection under the law, safe spaces, sports or language but we need to acknowledge that it's a nuanced and tricky subject with real life consequences for a large number of teens currently. I personally know 4 friendship groups from different schools that are "transing". Its happening and refusing to engage and understand just isn't working.