Was I a Bully?

[Tiktokersmiracle]

Because that's what a GP surgery receptionist just called me.

We've been having a nightmare with shielding not being sorted and then arguments over my DPs place in the Vaccine queue.

My Ds was born very early and has lung conditions amongst other things as a result. One of the conditions is something that you can manage very carefully but he won't grow out of. However, he wasn't put in shielding so we had threats from our local authority that if we didn't provide a shielding letter, he had to be in school or they would dereg him. This will probably happen again in March.

When I queried the GP said they had a letter saying he had "grown out" of his condition- I've since raised this with the consultant who has said categorically this letter does not exist. They have been asked for a copy by me and the consultant but have yet to Hand it over.

Anyway, the Vaccine

DP has a degenerative lung condition. The twat didn't even tell me for two years, I heard it from his Dsis. He is pretty shit at anything medical, typical male.

It's been 5 years since diagnosis and the GP has done nothing. So before covid I chased up about referrals and medications but obviously, this was then put on hold due to covid.

I looked up the online "when should you get the vaccine" and his came up for beginning of February due to age (50s) and his condition. I called, to be told no, he is level 9. They had disregarded his condition as he isn't under a consultant, but that's down to them doing sweet FA on diagnosis.

So I've been back and forth arguing over it.

It's now come to light that actually, we should be higher up the list because our DS has DLA high rate care. This is not easy to apply and be awarded, it takes months of evidence and letters. You can't just rock up to the DWP and get it.

So I called today as the practice manager was meant to call me earlier this week anyway.

I politely explained to the receptionist who got quite flustered, I said, look I know you must be getting calls but I'm concerned that DS and DPs records are incorrect and as a result they are being put at risk.

She then called me a bully and said I couldn't bully my way to jumping the queue!

She then put the phone down.

Yes, we do need to change surgery but our trust has said we can't because we have a surgery and they are only allowing people without a surgery to sign up to a new one. So we are stuck.

It's also been brought to my attention they had 7 year old out of date medication info for Ds so I doubt they've updated anything on him.

Was I bullying?
Should I just accept what I feel borders on medical negligence and wait?
I was really calm and polite, I always am because you have no choice but to speak to them and I know some can get the right arse and make things awkward.

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague

I so sympathise. My actual GP is very good, but the practice as a whole...dear god. The admin team is appalling. Even back in the good old days before Covid, it was just one long fuck up. I get regular prescriptions and I'd go to the surgery to pick up my FP10 and there'd be a mistake Every Single Time. Something missing, something extra, the wrong quantity, whatever. Getting appointments was hopeless. Getting results was hopeless. Getting referral letters sent out in a timely fashion and to the right person was hopeless. Complaint handling - don't even get me started. As you can imagine, post Covid things are beyone hopeless. The trouble is that incompetent people usually know it on some level, and get defensive when pressed to do their job properly. Trying to make you feel like the unreasonable one is standard operating procedure. I imagine your calm insistence on just getting things sorted out satisfactorily genuinely felt like bullying to her, but it won't do. This sounds potentially like an actual life and death issue and someone at the practice will have to pull their finger out.

I suggest putting it all in writing, with lots of bullet lists for the hard of thinking. Post it, email it, copy in anyone you can think of who is in a position to apply pressure (CCG, MP, consultant, etc). It's all very well to brush someone off on the phone, but once things get into writing they affect performance indicators, which affects the bottom line in general practice. Invite them to review the recording of the phone call (even if there isn't one, your willingness tells its own story). Flag the whole episode up as a retraining issue for the receptionist in question but emphasise that your family's health needs dealing with first.

You should not have to have (or be) an assertive advocate in the family to get your healthcare needs met. This stuff is literally why they are there.

It sucks doesn't it?

And it's quite the juggling act trying to keep everything ticking along and hitting a brick wall admin wise.
But you do stay polite or they get worse usually.
And if they employed people who kept up with admin, they wouldn't get calls asking what's happening.

I would be happy, they would be happy.

She shouldn't have put the phone down; that was unprofessional.

As a fellow parent of a child in receipt of DLA, I would say that no, you weren't a bully. You are just very well versed in knowing how to talk - clearly and concisely, to people about what you need with regards to help for your child's care.

As you say, you have been given permission to discuss your partner's medical position so I personally think that the receptionist was either a) having a bad day (understandable but shouldn't allow that to affect her professionalism) or b) isn't used to dealing with people who know how to explain themselves clearly and aren't in awe of the doctor's receptionist, as quite a lot of people are!

Well done on championing for your child!

@LoudestCat14

Is there also a chance they'll be on the shielding list now 1.7 million others are going to be added to it?

No idea I hope so.

I know by December they said DC's were on it if type 1, recently treated for or being treated for cancer, or a transplant patient. Originally, he would have been on the list in March/April because of his lungs. I do know a child his age and with his condition passed away in January so possibly they are now, I would imagine though he will be missed due to this letter they can't produce.

@Chocolatehamper

As a fellow parent of a child in receipt of DLA, I would say that no, you weren't a bully. You are just very well versed in knowing how to talk - clearly and concisely, to people about what you need with regards to help for your child's care.

As you say, you have been given permission to discuss your partner's medical position so I personally think that the receptionist was either a) having a bad day (understandable but shouldn't allow that to affect her professionalism) or b) isn't used to dealing with people who know how to explain themselves clearly and aren't in awe of the doctor's receptionist, as quite a lot of people are!

Well done on championing for your child!

Yes that's exactly it, clear, concise. It's like a script explaining now.

Thank you for understanding

I see no bullying - you have a duty to advocate for someone vulnerable in your family. I would complain about this receptionist

Contact the practise manager and of no luck there, contact your ccg pals team. Also write out a timeline and what was actually said in the call as closely as you can remember.

Lots of people aren’t on the shielded list and children in particular seem to need very serious conditions such as active cancer treatment to go on the list. My mum had copd but not bad enough for the list.

They are vaccinating so quickly that everyone will be offered it soon. It’s most likely to be available for all in a couple of weeks so it may not be worth the battle but you still need to raise the way you were spoken to so long as you are happy you were not rude (ie didn’t swear etc).

You probably weren't the least bit bullying in your tone. However, I would imagine the receptionist has had endless phone calls from people being less than pleasant, demanding to know why their next door neighbour's cousin's cleaner has had the vaccine and they haven't, when, in their opinion, they are more deserving of anyone, regardless of underlying health issues.

I sympathise OP

I called our surgery last week, on the advice of 111 to make an appointment for my son, to be told the surgery had been shut since March!

Oh I don't think so but the receptionist was very rude and I had to be quite persistent that I was calling on NHS advice!

Solidarity to you.

Those saying she is a bully and trying to get to the top of the list re read the post

At the moment both dp and ds are in cohort 9, they both have medical conditions that, if the GP records are correct, would put them in a higher cohort, one that’s being vaccinated now

Everyone’s medical records should be correct, that’s all she is trying to do

Stop being so rude

How can you say she isn’t a bully when you have no idea how she spoke to the receptionist? Bizarre

OP lots of useful advice here and the usual crap responses from people who either have not read what you said (or simply do not believe you). Ignore them.

I hope you get resolution on these issues.

I feel you

I’m group 4! Shielded. And still haven’t been offered the vaccine

I phoned up the other day to check that I hadn’t been missed and the receptionist literally screamed at me. However I just took this as how incredibly stressed they are and I hold no bad blood.

After me explaining. She said I’ll try and get them to escalate you

But it’s been a shit show. Not the drs or nurses. The people up top.

I phoned up the other day to check that I hadn’t been missed and the receptionist literally screamed at me. However I just took this as how incredibly stressed they are and I hold no bad blood.

I love how all the OPs/PPs are always calm/polite/never raise their voice above a whisper, and how the people working always scream/shout/yell.

In my experience many people, who are bullying or abrasive in tone and words they use, do not realise their behaviour is bullying. Add to this the obvious stress you are feeling about your DS and DH vulnerabilities you may well have come across as intimidating.

What do want to happen now? Are you being realistic? What’s the best way of achieving this? Are the questions you should now ask yourself. Focussing on what the receptionist felt is not going to change your situation and deflects from what you need to do now.

As an aside there are many people (including myself) who probably feel hard done by about which category they are in - some conditions are included, some are not. Assessment of each individual’s personal health circumstances and risk is an imperfect tool and needed to be done based on the key codes on a person’s health records, there will no doubt be many many people contacting surgeries like you have done.
I personally would focus on your DS’s needs at the moment, your DH’s group will be included pretty soon - next 6 weeks or so hopefully. It is up to him to sort this out any rate, by pressing the surgery on both cases you are making yourself less credible.

“ DP has a degenerative lung condition. The twat didn't even tell me for two years, I heard it from his Dsis. He is pretty shit at anything medical, typical male.”

You may not be a bully but you’re definitely an arsehole

@slashlover

I phoned up the other day to check that I hadn’t been missed and the receptionist literally screamed at me. However I just took this as how incredibly stressed they are and I hold no bad blood.

I love how all the OPs/PPs are always calm/polite/never raise their voice above a whisper, and how the people working always scream/shout/yell.

I've not said she did scream yell or shout, I said she sounded a bit flustered and annoyed.

Just wanted to say thank youbfor responses I put my hard hat on asking on aibu so expected a few not rtft comments and others

But yes, I will ask the practice manager who will hopefully ring me without me having to ask for a message to be left like earlier.
I get that NHS employees from desk staff upwards are stressed of course.
It is quite stressful looking after Ds and DP but that's why I micro manage it where possible and I do add I extra time and patience for usual NHS admin cock ups.
But thanks for the responses and I think if all else fails I may ask his consultants lovely secretary to give them a call, she has before when they wouldn't action a new medication for DS as the secretary hadn't put it on his record yet. Now there's a woman who tells lacklustre staff what for but then I won't have to and continue to say rude words only once the phone is disconnected.

The receptionist cannot make appointments if the patient does not appear to meet the criteria according to their records (even though you dispute the accuracy of the records). You can argue, however reasonably, with them until you are blue in the face but they can’t do it. If they’ve told you that and you still insist they do something, it was unreasonable of you (however polite you were)- and it could be perceived as you trying to force your way to the top.

A good friend of mine is a GP and they have had so many people claiming to have a reason to need vaccinated in the priority groups who simply don’t fulfil the criteria- many genuinely believe they do though and it’s not always “trying it on”. But it does create a lot of friction and the practice staff are often bearing the brunt of a lot of flack at the minute.

You should have asked to be put through to the practice manager, or a message left to call you back if they were unavailable. You should contact the practice manager again- perhaps by email so there is a written paper trail.

With regards your son, it should be fairly easy to show that he is still under a consultant for x condition. Even easier if they are still prescribing medication for this condition. They are obliged to change the record if that is the case.

With regard to your DH- he has presumably given written permission for you to deal with his medical records and on-going health needs? If not, that could be another reason they could not deal with your demand to change the information on his medical record.

As to for whether your DH should get his vaccination, it does depend on whether the lung condition is confirmed or suspected, awaiting confirmatory tests. And on the particular chronic lung condition really. Not all need medication or a consultant to confirm diagnosis or to see the patient in an out-patient clinic for review. Are you sure it is a confirmed, rather than suspected diagnosis. If suspected and not formally diagnosed he will not be eligible. I accept that will be frustrating if there has been a long delay in the confirmation due to GP inaction. If that is the case, they should try to confirm the diagnosis as quickly as possible and may (I highlight may) be able to give it under “use of clinical judgement” clause if that cannot be done promptly (e.g. diagnostic test not available).

Though, I would caution that for all I know your DH may well have had a part to play in any delay so it may not all be down to GP being neglectful. For instance, if he has been expected to make appointments and has neglected to do so, then this can be a source of delay/incomplete care. I’m a hospital doctor and you might be surprised how often patients complain their GP or their consultant (me included) has “done nothing”, when they have not made/attended subsequent appointments for follow up or monitoring. For example, last week I saw a patient who was admitted acutely and complained that the condition they have has deteriorated to the point of needing admission because they have had treatment- despite the fact they presented to the GP “years ago” and the GP said they thought they had this condition. I was fairly appalled initially but after contacting the GP (i was trying to work out what had and had not been done/tried) that it wasn’t quite the way the patient had described. GP had indeed seen patient with symptoms compatible with this condition and organised tests- some of which had been done and came back ok (this does not rule out early stages of this condition). They recommended a trial of treatment and patient to report back after a period of time. Patient did not come back after the trial of treatment as requested and did not consult again about this matter. As far as the GP is concerned, diagnosis unconfirmed (so not coded for pick up for flu/COVID vaccine or chronic disease recall by GP) and patient not going back would suggest to the GP that the symptoms have settled. It does happen quite a lot. Sometimes it is due to poor communication on the HCPs part, sometimes it is due to patients not taking responsibility for their own health problems. Sometimes it is a bit of both.

Anyway, back to your point. No way to know if you were unpleasant or bullying- you think not, they think you were. No-one on here can say one way or the other. If you strongly believe they were in the wrong- complain. There may be a recording that could be listened to as part of your complaint which would clarify matters. Speak to the practice manager regarding the issue in relation to inaccurate recording on his GP records- if you don’t get anywhere you could ask for a copy of his notes. They will have to provide a copy to you within a set time. That way you can see if the letter your GP says told them that your DS’s condition had resolved is there or not. Same with your DH’s records (though he will have to request this).

@Zebraaa

Why isn’t your partner, a grown man, sorting out this own medical issues?

You do sound overbearing.

Because she might as well get the whole family sorted out with one call rather than numerous ones?

Why is caring for your family 'overbearing'?

@Zebraaa

How can you say she isn’t a bully when you have no idea how she spoke to the receptionist? Bizarre

Why assume she is?

Why is your husband not making his own calls.

It would seem that the problem with your husbands records is of his own making. I doubt that he would have been diagnosed with a degenerative lung condition and not been asked to do follow up appointments. Maybe he did get asked but, as you said, he disengaged and didn't go. Unfortunately that isn't the surgery's fault, they can't make people see them if they don't want to. I would say the best thing to do is to get him to make an appointment to see his gp so that his records can be current.

As for the rest of it I would just put it in writing. And ask the consultant to send a letter detailing your sons current condition and prognosis to his gp which would then cancel out the (seemingly non existent) letter that suggests that he's grown out of it.

@nokidshere

It would seem that the problem with your husbands records is of his own making. I doubt that he would have been diagnosed with a degenerative lung condition and not been asked to do follow up appointments. Maybe he did get asked but, as you said, he disengaged and didn't go. Unfortunately that isn't the surgery's fault, they can't make people see them if they don't want to. I would say the best thing to do is to get him to make an appointment to see his gp so that his records can be current.

As for the rest of it I would just put it in writing. And ask the consultant to send a letter detailing your sons current condition and prognosis to his gp which would then cancel out the (seemingly non existent) letter that suggests that he's grown out of it.

I'm not suggesting his avoidance is their fault, sorry if that's how it's come across I did ask had they sent any follow up or asked him to and they said they "didn't see it on their records" which at our sugery means "oh shit, no we didn't but we won't own up". The GP who emailed admitted he should've been but the GP who diagnosed no longer works there.

It's the sort of surgery that has a high turn over of GPs, and you never see the same one twice.

I wasn't expecting the receptionist to make an appointment, I think I said upthread it was more for a message to go to the practice manager who is dealing with the should dp or should do not be on the list in a higher group than 9/10. No email for her, you have to call and leave a message. Daft way to do things but that's standard of the daft nature of admin at this surgery in the last few years.

Also I don't believe DS will be having a vaccine any time soon, he's 12, his DD wanted to volunteer on the trial though for kids as they're both keen to get lives back on track.
We are told his risk is lower with the original covid but will be checking in the first week of March with consultant if that is still the case.

I don't understand why you would think that high rate care DLA would qualify you for being moved quicker up the list?