What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

I think it's just red pill/blue pill for the 3%. It's a fuck of a lot easier to live in a world where everything is ok if you are kind/careful/confident.

It's liberal feminism to a tee - you won't get raped if you are careful, your daughters will be safe/successful/well paid if you teach them to be confident. Don't look over there at what the bad radfems say - it might make you sad - come over here where we all have lovely lovely agency over our lives, as much as we want...

Within hierarchical systems, we understand that it is often necessary that the subordinate group/s have their own spaces. E.g. scholarships for BAME students that white students cannot access. This 'discrimination' is viewed as proportionate due to existing inequalities.

For sports, it has historically been deemed necessary for sex segregation of most activities so that women can engage in fair competition. This has been based on sex rather than gender identity. Much sport is deemed to be 'unladylike' to begin with, so women's sport is a space where organising anything on the basis of 'gender identity' would be ridiculous.

Why is this being stealthily changed? Why are people arguing that it should be? It's misogyny in sheep's clothing.

neron please define what is meant by living as a woman? If it relies on being able to join anything ser up for women , and be validated by them then I don’t accept that
They have transitioned and had the operations. To intents, they are now a woman, and are living their life as one. Like FF.

Absolutely nothing stopping them, it is only female sport that is restricted
Not true. The american wrestler is transitioning from female to male. He is not allowed to compete in the men's team, and he isn't wanted in the women's team, because of the hormones he now takes to aid that transition. All he wants to do is wrestle and he can't.

Or are you simply posting 'your personal view' that they cannot enter the male category
Or my view after seeing this happen in the 18 years of martial arts and competing?
In BJJ, the TP male to female is not allowed to enter the male division and neither is she wanted in the female division. The only thing she can do is the absolute division, but even then, there are few bio females who will compete against her.

@Neron

The only thing she can do is the absolute division, but even then, there are few bio females who will compete against her.

And why do you think that is?

They have transitioned and had the operations. To intents, they are now a woman, and are living their life as one. Like FF.

That's not explaining how you 'live your life as a woman'. Most TW don't even have 'operations'. Transitioned into what exactly?

Had the operations!

Oh dear! Facial feminisation band boobs yes. But, as seems to need repeating regularly, 95+% of transwomen retain their penis.

And transmen cannot complete in male sports as it is too dangerous for them as, regardless if any testosterone field changes, they are still at a great disadvantage. Male sport has recognised this and taken steps to protect everyone from being injured, or being the person who badly injures another.

Conversely the same hormone therapy means transmen do have issues playing in women's sports, because of doping, not because of how they present.

So you see, men's sports can say no based on safety. It's only women's sports that cannot!

"British Cycling encourages Transgender and Non-Binary Participants to take part in Recreational Activities in the Gender they identify as. Notwithstanding section 3 of this policy, as there is no
competitive element to Recreational Activities, Participants are able to take part in British Cycling sanctioned recreational activities in their Self-Identified Gender, without providing additional evidence.
Section 4 of this policy applies to all British Cycling Members and those who are not members of British Cycling, but wish to take part in British Cycling Recreational Activity.
All Participants should be treated with respect at all times and if concerns are reported of individuals not accepting Transgender and/or Non-Binary Participants in any activity, the matter shall be referred to the British Cycling Integrity and Compliance Department to be considered under the British Cycling Disciplinary Regulations".

This is a quote from the British Cycling policy. It is chilling. The threat of disciplinary action should any woman object to males in womens cycling is forcing women out of their sport.
Does posters supporting males in womens sport think this is acceptable? The feelings of male participants are put above women without any consultation with women?

The american wrestler is transitioning from female to male. He is not allowed to compete in the men's team, and he isn't wanted in the women's team, because of the hormones he now takes to aid that transition. All he wants to do is wrestle and he can't.

The wrestling organisations have obviously made policies around safety for the reason that taking T doesn't make the female body safe to be wrestling with males. I wish more organisations would do this. And you are right. For transmen, it becomes an issue in male contact sports.

There are many people who have the difficult choice of procedures or medication that will mean they cannot be playing the sport they want. That transman has chosen to medically transition. I have not checked what the situation is if that person was a late transitioner and if they ceased T would they be able to participate in women's category.

This is very different from the males who have the advantage and wish to participate in women's sports where they still retain the advantage and they still are a huge safety risk in contact sports.

When people have a choice to make about medically transitioning, I would expect that this is one of the hard choices they have to make.

I ask again. What male who identifies as a women has been told they cannot participate in the male category for sport?

because of the hormones he now takes to aid that transition.

That's a mealy mouthed way of referring to testosterone which would be illegal doping for any other female. If they stop taking them, they can be in the women's team. Sometimes you have to make choices in life.

X post saying pretty much the same as Winesalot

In BJJ, the TP male to female is not allowed to enter the male division and neither is she wanted in the female division. The only thing she can do is the absolute division, but even then, there are few bio females who will compete against her.

So.... they CAN compete? There is a division for them to compete in?

What does it matter that there are 'few bio females who will compete against her'? The person is male? Why do females have to feel they have to compete against them?

Why do you want females to put themselves at risk to validate a male's identity?

Is that what you are actually telling us?

That in your eyes, a 'bio' female needs to validate a male's perception of themselves for their mental health but the 'bio' female's increased safety risk?????

And again, you obviously think sex can be changed and males can become 'females'. By what means?

When does this actually happen? When can person who was previously male accept a females post pregnancy blood with confidence? When can a person start to use the guide to the signs of a heart attack for the opposite sex?

Interesting that some sports associations think that it is too dangerous for female transmen, even those taking testosterone, to compete against males but not too dangerous for women to compete against male transwomen.

When can person who was previously male accept a females post pregnancy blood with confidence? In a transfusion , obviously!!

Well, this thread has been eye opening!

I'm sure lurkers are reading and wondering how on earth anyone with two brain cells to rub together doesn't understand that natal males cannot compete in sports against women, without hugely disadvantaging all women and potentially injuring the ones they compete with and alongside.

The evidence put forward has been crystal clear. Only close minded people would fail to get it.

So, well done to everyone who's discussed this.

Fembot123, I'm so sorry for what that man did to you. And angry, on your behalf.

The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know - I don't think I've ever heard this part of the saying before. Wow, it's so completely accurate!

Cognitive dissonance is an odd beast.

All he wants to do is wrestle and he can't.

I have epilepsy. One thing I would love is for there to not be any flashing lights in any film or television show, so I can watch things without being scared of photosensitive seizures. And yet because I don't believe my wants outweigh other people's, and I understand that the majority of people would miss out on a more enjoyable and exciting cinematic experience for the sake of a very small number of people (including me) gaining something, I do not lobby for a total ban on flashing lights in any film or television show. I do not bully people who enjoy making or watching films or tv shows with flashing lights in them.

Unfortunately giving up wrestling is one of many hard choices one may face if they wish to transition, because life isn't easy or fair all the time and sometimes you have to choose what is most important to you.

And for the record, my trans friends are so angry that a small minority of people are making their life even harder by claiming to speak for them. My trans friends love women, they love me, they understand that girls and women should not shoulder all of the burdens of the struggle trans people face including girls and women in sport. They don't want girls and women to miss out. Because they are decent people who are being made even more vulnerable by the agenda of trans activists unwilling to acknowledge facts. 'Be kind' appears to only be asked of natal females.

And for the record, my trans friends are so angry that a small minority of people are making their life even harder by claiming to speak for them. My trans friends love women, they love me, they understand that girls and women should not shoulder all of the burdens of the struggle trans people face including girls and women in sport. They don't want girls and women to miss out. Because they are decent people who are being made even more vulnerable by the agenda of trans activists unwilling to acknowledge facts. 'Be kind' appears to only be asked of natal females.

This is so important to remember. There are many transpeople keeping silent on this issue because of potential abuse from activists and allies.

I ask again. What male who identifies as a women has been told they cannot participate in the male category for sport?

I too, would love to know the answer to this question!!

I suspect though, that Trans women with the disgusting attitude of Fallon Fox, would not seek to participate in the male category, because they know they aren't good enough to compete with men, whereas, if they declare to the World that they are now a "woman"(how?) and participate in the female category, they know they will win hands down. The fact that this is CHEATING IN PLAIN SIGHT doesn't seem to matter. Neither does it matter, that by doing so, they damage the careers of the very sex that they wish to become.

The Emperors New Clothes springs to mind.

@Winesalot

And for the record, my trans friends are so angry that a small minority of people are making their life even harder by claiming to speak for them. My trans friends love women, they love me, they understand that girls and women should not shoulder all of the burdens of the struggle trans people face including girls and women in sport. They don't want girls and women to miss out. Because they are decent people who are being made even more vulnerable by the agenda of trans activists unwilling to acknowledge facts. 'Be kind' appears to only be asked of natal females.

This is so important to remember. There are many transpeople keeping silent on this issue because of potential abuse from activists and allies.

Exactly. They are literally being put in danger and made more vulnerable by people who use them as props for their own agenda. It's awful and so short sighted. And they can't speak out because even a trans person will be labelled a transphobe (or 'self hating trans t*rf' as one of my dear friends was labelled) if they digress from the agenda of a militant but loud few. It's so sad, so divisive and so unnecessary.

I have epilepsy. One thing I would love is for there to not be any flashing lights in any film or television show, so I can watch things without being scared of photosensitive seizures. And yet because I don't believe my wants outweigh other people's, and I understand that the majority of people would miss out on a more enjoyable and exciting cinematic experience for the sake of a very small number of people (including me) gaining something, I do not lobby for a total ban on flashing lights in any film or television show. I do not bully people who enjoy making or watching films or tv shows with flashing lights in them

Yeah, I was a bit to that comment about "all he wants to do is wrestle and he can't". Sorry, but that's life! I'd love to run for 10 miles tomorrow. But I can't, because I eat too much shit and drink too much wine, so I'm quite unfit. Boo Hoo.

What is the problem with my posts on this topic? There are a few of you getting het up about what I'm posting.

I DO martial arts and have for a very long time, at a good level. I KNOW what it is like to train with men and I would never compete against one. I DON'T agree with having a TP (man to woman) in the woman's categories because of the damage a biological woman can and does sustain. I DON'T agree that woman's sports are being eroded in this manner, all for the sake of inclusion.

If someone isn't happy as a man or a woman and wants to ID as the opposite, than that's not my life to judge. My comment about the wrestler - what's wrong that all they want to DO is wrestle? He would happily compete in the mens division but isn't allowed to. He isn't allowed to wrestle in competitions at all, nothing wrong with stating that.

I’m still catching up on previous posts but Rachel McKinnon (who also sometimes uses the name Veronica Ivy) is another transwoman who demonstrates perfectly the differences in male and female physiology. McKinnon is a cyclist.

Neron
The problem arises because some people (predominantly transwomen) are not content to identify as women and get on with their lives. They want to be recognised as women in all spheres of life and women who express concern about this for a wide variety of reasons are vilified and issued with death and rape threats. I’m sure you’re familiar with the Transwomen Are Women mantra. That means women in ALL circumstances, no exemptions even when legally allowed through the Equality Act.

I ask again. What male who identifies as a women has been told they cannot participate in the male category for sport?

I too, would love to know the answer to this question!!
Mack Beggs

Mack Bangs is a trans man so female to male transitioner unless I've got this wrong.