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What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

806 replies

Nothappywiththis · 14/02/2021 15:36

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Alonelonelyloner · 15/02/2021 12:23

I think biological women should go on strike. It's just killing me reading this. It's outrageous.

SummerBlondey · 15/02/2021 12:31

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better

FFS. You do realise, that a 5ft 6 male footballer would out perform a 5ft 6 female footballer though? So, if they decided next week to go by the name of Barbara, they should NEVER be allowed on the women's football team

I have to wonder if some people are really hard of thinking.

PotholeParadies · 15/02/2021 12:31

@Smallgoon

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better.
We're not talking about football. I will leave that for fans about football.

We are talking about martial arts and full-contact sport. You don't win bouts by waving your blood test results, and seeing the size disparity is necessary for people to appreciate how much of an advantage male puberty could be, regardless of current hormone levels.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 12:33

@Viviennemary

I read an article on this. Surely testosterone level checks are the way to go to avoid accusations of discrimination.
No. Testosterone is another of those red herring/Gotchas! Anybody seriously espousing it as an example of levelling the playing field are, at besr, utterly uninformed or, at worst, downright lying!

For example. caffeine and testosterone studies are amongst the most popular undergraduate and graduate studies, because they are so easy to undertake, the ethics are a well trodden path and the lazy student has reams and reams, decade upon decade, of extant data to draw from.

Studies showing marginal gains are quite esoteric, look at outliers or very small effects. They are the kind of studies I enjoyed most. They explored the oddities in data and forced student and lecturer alike to actually think!

But the well evidenced fact remains: testosterone in a male body acts differently than testosterone in a female body. The benefits conferred will always be (by cohort, longitudinally) greater for the male body.

There are, as I said, some caveats. But they are always specific and don't explain a wider effect. Most studies that say there are social factors, aka gender factors, are saying that our social mores lead men to seek increased testosterone levels leading to greater sex based differences. Which I think is where soe of the gendered 'facts' come from - they bastardise some bloody good cross disciplinary studies.

Winesalot · 15/02/2021 12:34

@Smallgoon

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better.
Please do keep posting as it brings out different angles.

You are right. Males who are shorter can still be world champions. However, as all the evidence keeps proving, the differences between males and females mean that the weakest male is still in the highest percentiles of the strongest women.

And tall males simply have many more advantages of leverage, lung capacity and all those listed previously on this thread over females.

Please tell us more about why your point is relevant to males competing against females though. I am very interested in your reasoning.

Do you think that team of very tall and strong women would have any chance of beating a team of short males at football?

You do realise both the olympic USA women's team and the olympic Australian women's football teams have been beaten by school boy teams?

Again, what is your point?

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 15/02/2021 12:35

@Smallgoon

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better.
And what is your response to the table I posted, showing that schoolboys can outperform the female world record-holder in many sports? The numbers speak for themselves. If male-bodied athletes are allowed to compete against women, women will lose. Why is that OK with you?
Helmetbymidnight · 15/02/2021 12:36

Because it wont go back to the way it was. It's 'progress'. Just like all the other things that have changed.

What's progress about women being forced out of sport?

Can you explain who you think its an improvement for?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 12:36

@Viviennemary

Because it wont go back to the way it was. It's 'progress'. Just like all the other things that have changed.
You are quite right. It won't go back to the way it was. Women in the 21st century will have to stand up and be hurt in order to regain the rights that women born in the 19th century won for us all!

The backlash against this will send us all reeling back to the 1900s and women will be the only losers.

And those trans individuals who just want to live their lives without all this self aggrandising bollocks!

Why would we want to sit back and allow that to happen?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 12:38

@Smallgoon

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better.
Just the kind of fucking around with physiology that makes the writer look stupid but carries some force with the equally ill informed!

Can I suggest you try some human physiology research? Then come back and apologise for such an ill informed comment!

Helmetbymidnight · 15/02/2021 12:38

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better.

OMG, you're not for real, are you?

Helmetbymidnight · 15/02/2021 12:43

We're not talking about football. I will leave that for fans about football.

I'm happy to talk about football. Smallgoon knows - although for some reason they are pretending not to - that men have advantages over women in strength and speed. Smallgoon knows that women football players will be at a disadvantage if they have to play with and against men.
But hey, the men will be fine... And for Smallgoon that is the most important thing.

Winesalot · 15/02/2021 12:43

I actually think that the loopholes will get closed off over the next years.

Unless some miraculous research comes to light, the data is already in and has been published. And published some more with additional data to back it up. Males who have experienced a male puberty will not be allowed to compete or play unless it is a mixed team.

The attention will then turn to males who had early puberty blockers and it will be documented if there is any advantage still. There still may be due to other aspects such as muscle type, oxygen levels, skeletal advantages.

The likelihood is that changes will be made to the male categories to make them more welcoming to all who can safely participate .

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 15/02/2021 12:44

Yes, there are gender gaps

gawd

the people who believe this bobbins just love that mimsy word 'gender'

sex sex sex sex sex sex

gender means fuck all, it's just pretend

sex matters

WoolieLiberal · 15/02/2021 12:45

If “gender” and “sex” are two different things, why can’t we have “single sex” sports rather than “single gender” sports?

Or am I missing something?

DedlyMedally · 15/02/2021 12:46

@PotholeParadies

Testosterone level checks? I'll post this picture again.

It's quite possible that Cox and Strangio have similar levels of testosterone as Cox will be reducing their levels and taking oestrogen, and Strangio will be taking tesosterone supplementation.

Even if Strangio's levels of T are higher, Cox would be the bookie favourite to win a fight.

I could post a picture of Serena Williams and, for example Rose Namajunas and say "look, this person is bigger than that person, they can't fight". One, my money would be on Rose and two, it's why combat sports have weight classes. I think you're stepping into territory with dangerous implications when your argument is that most women can't compete with most men, so just concede when physicality is involved.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 12:49

I could post a picture of Serena Williams and, for example Rose Namajunas and say "look, this person is bigger than that person, they can't fight". Once again YES YOU COULD.

But what would you be trying to prove?

I think you're stepping into territory with dangerous implications when your argument is that most women can't compete with most men, so just concede when physicality is involved. YES THAT IS IT!!! THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SINGLE SEX SPORTS AND LOOS AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER THINGS!!!

Well done! You have seen sense at last!

Winesalot · 15/02/2021 12:49

I think it is important to get all the bingo cards on the table. This is exactly what I see happen on twitter.

  • tall women/ outliers
  • women have the choice
  • women are just as strong
  • skill matters (yes, but a male can still get in a punch that could fracture your more delicate skull)
  • short men can succeed too
  • just lower the testosterone
  • girls and women should just be happy to lose to someone is now included
  • train/try harder

What is left? I don't want to say it but I can sense it is coming. Let's see how long it takes for it to come out....

FossilisedFanny · 15/02/2021 12:51

This makes me sick to my stomach, it’s fucking assaulting a woman with spectators.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 12:51

... counting

... not holding my breath Grin

SqeakyHindge · 15/02/2021 12:51

@Smallgoon

The only card you got left to play is saying how nice the sportsman is.

It’s exhausting reading these threads when you have Wade through the post like yours.

Men don’t belong in female sports. They have said no. No means no

ShotgunShack · 15/02/2021 12:52

Whichever association governs this sport, they are clearly handing out opportunities for males to cheat.

FF is being enabled to cheat. Plainly. They are absolutely going to take full advantage of this while the opportunity is freely available and legal.

They are also enjoying beating up women and find it particularly exciting. Which is unpleasant as well as unsporting.

So both the governing policy and this individuals behavior need to be roundly condemned.

PotholeParadies · 15/02/2021 12:53

^I could post a picture of Serena Williams and, for example Rose Namajunas and say "look, this person is bigger than that person, they can't fight".
One, my money would be on Rose and two, it's why combat sports have weight classes.
I think you're stepping into territory with dangerous implications when your argument is that most women can't compete with most men, so just concede when physicality is involved.^

Indeed we do have weight classes. And putting a natal male in the women's class is akin to putting a heavyweight fighter in the bantamweight class.

Men punch 162% harder than women of the same weight. As I said earlier, fighting a man the same weight as me is nothing like fighting a woman. It's no longer a match of skill, any more than pitting a man against a Toyota Yaris would be.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/02/2021 12:53

Women playing and competing against other women is 'stepping into territory with dangerous implications'.

Spell it out then - what are the dangerous implications of women's only sports?

Smallgoon · 15/02/2021 12:55

@SummerBlondey

The people posting pics of transwoman who appear much taller than their teammates etc... You do realise that the greatest footballer in the world is 5'6 and has quite a slight build compared to other footballers, yes? Being bigger doesn't necessarily equate to being better

FFS. You do realise, that a 5ft 6 male footballer would out perform a 5ft 6 female footballer though? So, if they decided next week to go by the name of Barbara, they should NEVER be allowed on the women's football team

I have to wonder if some people are really hard of thinking.

The pictures being posted are not of people of equal height/weight though, are they?
AIMD · 15/02/2021 12:55

Honestly can’t understand the opinion of anyone who would argue this is ok.

Obviously amongst women there will be a variance in size/weight/strength etc. However clearly men and generally larger/bigger/stronger than women and outperform them in most sports in terms of speed of running etc. To pretend that isn’t an issue is ridiculous and to pretend that someone would not have those advantages just because they is identified as the opposite sex as an adult is also ridiculous.

I think it’s a really difficult issue and I can understand why someone might want to compete in their sport in the sex they identify as. But it just doesn’t work and beyond that isn’t fair (and doesn’t appear to be safe in some cases like the one mentioned in the main op).