What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. Yes! They are transwomen, not women.,

People born male are not actually women: ipso facto not ergo sum

So... now explain why, given that you acknowledge transwomen are not women, why the rest of your 'explanation' is logical!

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

Such a fascinating POV.

I personally have a great interest in Norse Mythology so I find this post most interesting

It's my choice to fight women. Only women.

I've had enough concussions over the years thanks. If that's a choice that's no longer going to be taken as read, watch as women leave amateur competitive sport.

We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age?

Delighted to hear I have the go-ahead to participate in the under-12s Karate. Gold medal here I come!

Interestingly, my first H was very slightly built. Short and thin. No visible muscles. When he decided to assault me, I fought back with every ounce of strength I had, and I had no chance. He could have finished me off quite easily. Also, like PP have said, my son was stronger than me, way before he became an adult.

Would one be guilty of transphobia or hate crime if you took a look at someone in the ring, thought to yourself that they look like a bloke, and declined to fight? Or would a competitor be forced to come up with an excuse, eg “I suddenly didn’t feel well” and presumably lose their ranking?

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to!

Fixed that for you:

I think it's fine for MEN to be included in women's sport. They're MEN hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a MAN, guess what, they don't have to!

No problem at all including transwomen

Delighted to hear I have the go-ahead to participate in the under-12s Karate. Gold medal here I come!

I'm going to start training as a runner, and compete against children, because, you know, I identify as a child.

I will win all of the races and then gloat as I take 1st place on the podium.

Then I'm going to take to Twitter and post about all of my wins and how much I enjoyed beating all the other children.

And neither the children nor their parents can stop me, and if they express any negative view about me being able to take all of the titles, then I will call them Bigots, because I won fair and square.

It’s usually done on weight category, no?
If other fighters have an issue with this I supposed they could refuse to fight that particular fighter? Turn down fights against her?

@SummerBlondey

Delighted to hear I have the go-ahead to participate in the under-12s Karate. Gold medal here I come!

I'm going to start training as a runner, and compete against children, because, you know, I identify as a child.

I will win all of the races and then gloat as I take 1st place on the podium.

Then I'm going to take to Twitter and post about all of my wins and how much I enjoyed beating all the other children.

And neither the children nor their parents can stop me, and if they express any negative view about me being able to take all of the titles, then I will call them Bigots, because I won fair and square.

Bit of an assumption that you’d actually beat them 😁😂

That photo could be used to ban MMA altogether

I sure as hell wouldn’t choose to fight someone who’d broken someone’s skull...

@PotholeParadies

We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age?

Delighted to hear I have the go-ahead to participate in the under-12s Karate. Gold medal here I come!

Well, to be fair...

Those posters who are advocating that to allow males to compete against women sports should be segregated by weight classes forget that if you are going to use that as a segregation point, you should be able to do it based on age as well.

If you are the same weight class, surely those posters would be in support of your entry into the under 10s even. Because, surely that is the same.

Of course, chances are that even if you are an elite athlete, by the time a male is 15 they are beating the international women’s records anyway. And under 15s football teams did beat Olympic women football teams (Australia and also the USA).

@Colorindex

It’s usually done on weight category, no? If other fighters have an issue with this I supposed they could refuse to fight that particular fighter? Turn down fights against her?

Yes, but between the sexes weight is not a measure of parity.

And tuning down a fight means losing ranking and money! So a male in the female category could become champion by default!

We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)?

Yes! Why shouldn't I be able to enter the under 12s race? I'm quite short so some of them would be taller than me and I'm not very fit due to not doing much training so it would totally be fair.

Fallon Fox hasn't fought since 2014 and she has lost before. The picture is shocking, but it's MMA, bleeding is part of the game.
It's just a weird hill to die on.
Take someone like Gabi Garcia who is a biological woman:

What's the argument for restricting someone who has been tested for threshold levels of testosterone, but allowing her to fight with none? There is a huge range of physical abilities within genders and sports will tend to attract the physical outliers in the first place.

Two new signings to a top flight Argentinian woman's football team.
3 professional cyclists trying to make a living on the female cycling circuit.
Isn't it great that women are now getting the chance, at long last, to make some money doing the sports they love

@Colorindex

It’s usually done on weight category, no? If other fighters have an issue with this I supposed they could refuse to fight that particular fighter? Turn down fights against her?

Not sure if you have read the thread, but a male in the same weight category will still have more power behind the punch (one study shows 160+%), and longer arm reach, greater leverage due to skeletal differences, faster reaction times etc.

Many of these differences are simply not effected by cross sex hormones either.

@DedlyMedally so do you think that males should be allowed to compete in female sports if they want to then?

@DedlyMedally

Fallon Fox hasn't fought since 2014 and she has lost before. The picture is shocking, but it's MMA, bleeding is part of the game. It's just a weird hill to die on. Take someone like Gabi Garcia who is a biological woman: What's the argument for restricting someone who has been tested for threshold levels of testosterone, but allowing her to fight with none? There is a huge range of physical abilities within genders and sports will tend to attract the physical outliers in the first place.

Let me see

MMA bleeding is part of the game, as are broken lombs. Cracked skulls? Not so much!

Biological woman - Garcia wouldn't be precluded on the basis of her size, but the question of PEDs did come up. And she is female!

It's one of the usual supposed Gotchas! OOh look an enormous woman, a woman at the top end of the female size/weight spectrum. A statistical outlier. So men should be allowed to fight women

Testosterone - again. one of those I don't undertsand / am going to ignore the whole of the science and use an isolated measure to prove my point! Even the IOC has realised that is wrong!

A huge range of physical abilities within genders sexes. Yes. And an enormous gap between them!

Your use of the word 'outliers' there is out of context!

Bit of an assumption that you’d actually beat them

This is true.

But who cares if jelly didn’t win. They had the chance. And if jelly’s participation stops someone else from being able to compete, what does that matter.

If jelly’s participation discouraged others from joining in because they felt it was useless.... they should just try harder next time! They were obviously not good enough to start with.

I see this rhetoric being used by activists insisting that the science is wrong and bigoted all the time.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

me too! I definitely dont want sports segregated by gender so how handy that sports are not segregated by gender but by biological sex

[quote BarbaraofKent]@DedlyMedally so do you think that males should be allowed to compete in female sports if they want to then?[/quote]
I don't think I've heard a convincing reason why a man who has dampen their testosterone below a determined level has an inherent advantage over women.
Some women have elevated testosterone levels but will be able to fight with no problem (as long as they can pass a drug test).
Fallon Fox fought one woman that a reasonable MMA fan would have heard of and she lost via TKO.