What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

There's no certainty that the transgender athlete has an advantage.

When you find this research which also will cover muscle types, oxygen availability in blood, lung capacity, skeletal size (and bones don’t ever shrink in length with cross sec hormones), pelvic structure, etc, please also include the potential of other advantages such

-as never having to deal with menstrual cycle effects on performance and training
-pregnancy and the effects of breastfeeding
-better training opportunities that are still skewed towards males
-better prize money
-being able to train and focus on playing because of inequality in payment between male and female sports at professional level

• the effects of losing a medal position due to allowing someone with benefit to compete when in the future it will be ruled out (ask Sharron Davies what sponsorship she missed when women taking Performance enhancers which were known but not able to be proved at the time) .
• and those girls who are missing their opportunities to earn their living (sponsorship or scholarships) because a male who has the benefit of male puberty and other benefits has taken their opportunities.

This isn’t simply limited to biological benefits ... but I think you know that.

You say it's a matter for the sports medics to sort out. Yes it is, and we should be listening. Men punch 162% harder than a woman of equivalent weight.

Let’s also be aware that females have not only ‘eggshell’ skulls as one trans activists pointed out (as a reason males shouldn’t really be blamed for killing their partners I think.), but within the skull itself it has been proven that the brain fibres are more delicate.

This makes women more prone to concussive injuries including dementia.

So that more powerful punch, even if you are a women with the best of training and skill, when it lands on your head will do more damage to your brain than it would a male’s brain.

If MMA is anything like kickboxing, you don't know who you will be up against in bouts until the last minute
Not quite correct. A MMA fight will mostly be arranged on a show, unless they were doing an interclub. You will be matched and can look in to your opponent. It isn't always fair matching, some promoters look for easy wins, and some go for crowd entertainment because knock outs are received well as harsh as it is.

Kickboxing tournaments, I agree. I've been put in to the ring with all sorts. My last tournament was the British championships and the winner moved on. In the final I had to go up 2 weight categories, from my 47kg to her 57kg. In addition, my 5 fights, my brown belt, my 7 years in the sport (at that time), compared to her 30 odd years in the game, a black belt in 2 arts and over 200 comps with multiple world, European and British belts. There was no choice given to me, I had to get in there and fight. The pressure from everyone, including the organisers was immense and that was only amateur. I can't imagine the pressure for pro fighters.

The minimizing of the harm this is already doing to women is clear and yet, seeing people doing it seem to be misinformed and not all that interested in doing the reading themselves to form their own opinions.

As a mother of a girl playing sport, you betcha I am interested in this. Those who follow the ‘just let them play’ philosophy have absolutely no awareness of the harm they are allowing. Or they simply don’t care.

Tara Wolf is best known as the trans rights activist who assaulted a 61 year old feminist. Wolf is now training in Muay Thai and plans to fight in female boxing in the UK.

undertheropes.com/2020/02/02/british-trans-fighter-tara-wolf-has-first-fight-under-tutelage-of-nong-toom/

He has a grown daughter and a son. I thought Bear was another daughter?

It's all very vague, and now he's just blocking everyone.

So, he is lying to virtue signal for publicity for his book? Well he probably didn’t expect the ratio.

Yup. I think a lot of these men are so entitled that it doesn't even occur to them that women (and men) might push back against this.

Why women on here support male bodies in women's sports is a greater mystery for me though. I wish they'd try to answer, but I guess they'll just disappear. It must be such a conflict to carry: you believe whole-heartedly that when a man says he is a woman that he is, so you support and indeed embrace the idea that Arsenal women's team might soon be dominated by Transwomen, there is a tiny prickling of your conscience that says that's not fair, but you have to supress it because, well, you're not one of those awful bigots.

It's all the living embodiment of the Emperor's New Clothes.
The whole TRA movement is based on lies. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up one day and they'll say 'April Fool's!!!!!' In the meantime women and girls are losing out to it everyday. Men holding women's sports records FFS.

In other news the 2021 census is collecting gender identity, plus the question about actual sex is ambiguous (you can answer using what's on your passport rather than your birth certificate).
Young people are being brainwashed into it... see one here saying non-binary gender identities should be on passports.. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55721123

That would be the equivalent of having goth, punk or casual recorded on your passport. Or even your sexuality. That won't pan out well if visiting one of the many countries where being gay is (obviously terribly) illegal will it?!

The whole ideology is so dangerous and so damaging for women and girls. And at the same time it's like something out of Viz. You couldn't make it up.

@Smallgoon

Would the people in this thread disgusted by the skull fracture, be just as disgusted if it was at the hands of a cis woman? I only ask because it seems a lot of you aren't aware of the lack of rules around MMA fighting. It is utterly horrific full stop. Female fighters have broken other female fighters arms during these fights, as this is allowed within the rules. The rules stipulate that until somebody "taps out" they are fair game.

Seems that the disgust is solely because a trans woman won the fight, rather than the fact that MMA is a vile contact sport which shouldn't exist full stop.

Yep!

Because, in the spirit of MMA (I too was a kickboxer) 2 women (we don't use the cis word here) within the same weight category will have similar training responses, you know, normal female ones. So any damage done will be foreseable, experienced before, accepted as part of the sport's risk. That's usually referred to as informed consent

Add a man to the mix and all of that goes out of the window (I am also a sports scientist).

I may not like MMA but, as many do, I can reserve my utter disgust for men who choose to cheat in order to beat the crap out of women. Women who have no say in the matter because the sport is run by men!

A interesting and balanced response, thanks @CuriousaboutSamphire 😊

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

Clown post.

Wow, cannot believe that about Tara Wolf!

From that article:

One protest she joined at Hyde Park in 2017 turned her life upside down. After a physical altercation with a 60-year-old ‘trans-exclusionary radical feminist’ who was filming her and other protesters, Tara was taken to court and charged with assault. She was vilified by the media as a ‘trans-identified male’, a ‘granny basher’ and a ‘violent misogynist’. The trial and media coverage sparked a wave of transphobic harassment, and she cites this as the cause of her subsequent drug addiction. “They tried to ruin my life, and in trying to cope with it all, I developed a speed problem”, she said.

When I see stuff written down like this, where its so obviously manipulative gaslighting in real time, I really cannot believe my eyes!

For anyone who doesn't know, Tara Wolf was convicted of assault on 60 year old Maria Maclachlan, who was then told in court that she had to refer to her attacker as 'she'.

TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

If you can't see a difference between darts and poker and sports like boxing or athletics, then you're being deliberately obtuse. There are (as has been clearly explained on this thread) actual physical difference between the sexes. Your 'meritocracy' would be 90%+ men with the occasional woman. How many women would choose to compete against men? I think the patriarchy has fucked us all quite enough already, thanks!

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

0/10

Thank you for the giggle takethe.

I reckon competitive eating may be my thing!

When I see stuff written down like this, where its so obviously manipulative gaslighting in real time, I really cannot believe my eyes!

Absolutely! And at the bottom of that article there is the photo of an actual female between two female identifying people - it looks like it has been photoshopped- they are obviously so much bigger.

In the pics of Tara attacking Maria it is obvious that Tara is quite tall with a long reach.

If you were born male, then regardless of how you choose to present later on in life, you should not be allowed to participate on womens sports.
Flame away, I'm not changing my mind.

That’s good - women’s sport has been reduced to “competitive eating”.

@Stonerosie67

If you were born male, then regardless of how you choose to present later on in life, you should not be allowed to participate on womens sports. Flame away, I'm not changing my mind.

No flaming here, you're 100% right

TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to!

A trans woman is not a woman! It's a man who may have had gender reassignment surgery. A trans woman who has been taking medication to reduce testosterone, still has TEN TIMES more testosterone than a female. A trans woman does not shrink in size when they "become" a woman. If they were 6 ft 3 before, they are 6ft 3 after. They still have the same reach as before. They are still stronger than a female.

You are saying that a woman who has been fighting for years, and who has reached the top of her field, could choose to opt out if a trans woman is going to be her opponent? Well yes, but that's her having to hand over her crown and walk away. And you think that's fine?

Regarding Darts and Poker, can you really not see the difference between those sports and sport that involves fighting. REALLY?

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to! They're not slaves being forced to fight, they are athletes who enjoy hurting others and thrive on receiving pain themselves.

My personal preference would be to do away with the gender segregation in sport altogether. It should be a meritocracy, the fastest and the strongest reaching the top. We wouldn't accept segregation based on race or sexuality, so why accept it based on gender (or for that matter, age)? You only have to look at more enlightened sports to show this is possible. Darts for instance, technically there is a women-only tour but women are free to compete against men (and sometimes beat them). There are top-level female poker players, top-level female competitive eaters. There's no reason women shouldn't take on trans or straightforward male competitors in any sport they choose.

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

No.

Frankly it’s the logical conclusion. Do away with all categories and, whilst we’re at it, make drugs a free-for-all too, then we can see what a human can ultimately be stretched to.

I doubt whether trans women would be too thrilled with this, because if they had to compete in a gender-free arena they wouldn’t be picking up any gold medals.

@SummerBlondey

TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe I think it's fine for TW to be included in women's sport. They're trans women hence it's fine. If a female fighter doesn't want to fight a trans fighter, guess what, they don't have to!

A trans woman is not a woman! It's a man who may have had gender reassignment surgery. A trans woman who has been taking medication to reduce testosterone, still has TEN TIMES more testosterone than a female. A trans woman does not shrink in size when they "become" a woman. If they were 6 ft 3 before, they are 6ft 3 after. They still have the same reach as before. They are still stronger than a female.

You are saying that a woman who has been fighting for years, and who has reached the top of her field, could choose to opt out if a trans woman is going to be her opponent? Well yes, but that's her having to hand over her crown and walk away. And you think that's fine?

Regarding Darts and Poker, can you really not see the difference between those sports and sport that involves fighting. REALLY?

This x 100

And that's the thing - it's the woman's choice whether to fight or not.

OK! So you have really thought about it then!

Weirdly illogical choice of example sports, but if they are what you choose to use to shore up your beliefs I shall feel free to laugh at them