What do we think about THIS....Trigger warning - Graphic Image **title edited by MNHQ

[Nothappywiththis]

I’m not in support of thus. AIBU??

If you haven’t already it’s worth looking up tamikka brents and getting an insight to see what she has had to overcome after that fight which changed her life forever.

Tamikka is true warrior! Both mentally and physically! Fox should never been in that ring and Bretts knew that

@Impatiens

Female sports belong to females - Women and Girls. They shouldn't have to forfeit their place at any level because a male-born person wants to take it, that's totally wrong and unfair.

This.

This has horrified me for a while. I had a conversation with my husband about it last night. He was horrified too in the end... but I did have to spell it out for him.

@Fembot123

Anyone got a link to the fight being discussed as I can only find two, one where Fallon gets knocked out and another when they get totally dominated by their female opponent.

"Transgender Athlete Fallon Fox breaks skull of her opponent Tamikka Brents in an MMA fight"

Transgender Athlete Fallon Fox breaks skull of her opponent Tamikka Brents in an MMA fight. For more info and an interview with Tamikka after the fight check out the article:

"Transgender MMA Fighter Breaks Skull of Her Female Opponent. Are we Becoming too Careful not to Offend any Group of People?"

bjj-world.com/transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-breaks-skull-of-her-female-opponent/

And another one:

"Fallon Fox vs Allanna Jones CFA11 Full Fight"

In her much anticipated television debut Fallon Fox defeated Allanna Jones via a 3rd Round Knee Choke.

You'll find the concern is that a male bodied person was allowed to participate in women's sport and beat a woman to a pulp small goon

Women beat other women to a pulp in MMA too. Where's your sympathy then? The sport is vile.

@Smallgoon

You'll find the concern is that a male bodied person was allowed to participate in women's sport and beat a woman to a pulp small goon

Women beat other women to a pulp in MMA too. Where's your sympathy then? The sport is vile.

Don’t watch it then, it’s a sport. I don’t like fighting full stop, I feel same about rugby.

It’s a sport they choose to do, Fox didn’t get in that ring for sport, Fox got in that ring as man to beat living daylights out of woman.

The training & dedication aspect is interesting. Women v women are going in on an even keel, they don’t want your sympathy this is sport they choose to do.

If women choose to participate in sport against eachother then that is their decision. They have weighed up the risks to participate in their own sex category. . Bringing a male into that scenario completely changes the goal posts and is not ok. This is why there has always been sex segregated sport. Because otherwise women would not be able to play and succeed in their own sex category.

A female GENDER identity has no place in a women's SEX segregated sport category. Because sex is a biological physical reality, gender is neither of these things.. They are not the same thing and they never will be. Wrapping an apple in an orange peel does not make an apple an orange. And a gender identity does not make a man a biological woman, no matter how much activists try to change the meaning of words to make it fit.

Don't try and pull the transpohobia card on me to suit your narrative. This is about, and has always been about women's safeguards. Bringing men into women's sport puts women at serious risk of harm. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise clearly struggles with their learning and understanding,, or has another agenda which is not about women's safeguards, but about men's rights to remove those safeguards from women.

Where did I say I watch it? It's a vile sport regardless of who the competitors are.

Don't try and pull the transpohobia card on me to suit your narrative. This is about, and has always been about women's safeguards. Bringing men into women's sport puts women at serious risk of harm. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise clearly struggles with their learning and understanding,, or has another agenda which is not about women's safeguards, but about men's rights to remove those safeguards from women.

Has nothing to do with safeguards at all since you don't give a flying fuck about a woman's skull being smashed in by another woman. In that scenario, you're like 'yeah, well it was a choice'. LOL.

Has nothing to do with safeguards at all since you don't give a flying fuck about a woman's skull being smashed in by another woman. In that scenario, you're like 'yeah, well it was a choice'. LOL.

That's right goon. Women are able to make that choice. Just because they make that choice to fight women doesn't mean they should also be forced to fight men or not participate at all. And males participating in women's sport increases the risk to women to an unacceptable level and pushes women out of competitive sport. That's not ok.

@Smallgoon

Don't try and pull the transpohobia card on me to suit your narrative. This is about, and has always been about women's safeguards. Bringing men into women's sport puts women at serious risk of harm. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise clearly struggles with their learning and understanding,, or has another agenda which is not about women's safeguards, but about men's rights to remove those safeguards from women.

Has nothing to do with safeguards at all since you don't give a flying fuck about a woman's skull being smashed in by another woman. In that scenario, you're like 'yeah, well it was a choice'. LOL.

You might still be able to find medical reports. & documents, Brents injuries was a result of the force that only a man could inflict. Brents could of lost billion fights against a woman, no one would of be capable of what Fox done.

Brents even said basically that Fox wasn’t in that ring for sport. Maybe read up on her

@Smallgoon

You'll find the concern is that a male bodied person was allowed to participate in women's sport and beat a woman to a pulp small goon

Women beat other women to a pulp in MMA too. Where's your sympathy then? The sport is vile.

Why is the answer to these questions about male-bodied TW in female sports always essentially ‘sports don’t matter’?

Many women enjoy MMA and train in various martial arts. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean there isn’t any value to it

@StapMe

I'll get flamed but.....I don't understand transgender stuff at all. If you're born with XX chromosomes then you're female, and XY makes you male. Wasn't this is how they decided the sex of those very few children whose genitals were a bit ambiguous? So you want to live as the opposite sex? Firstly, I feel sorry for you, how hard must it be not to accept how you were born? People have what I can only imagine must be painful surgery and all sorts because that feel they were born in the wrong body. But at the end of the day you have XX or XY chromosomes and you are what you are. So, by and large, an XY chromosome person should not be competing against an XX one. There are some sports where the generally superior strength etc of XY people against XX people may not count (horse sports? skiing?) but fighting ain't one of them. So this XY person should not be fighting XX persons.

No flames

"People have what I can only imagine must be painful surgery and all sorts because that feel they were born in the wrong body."

It is extremely rare for "transition" to involve any sort of surgery at all.

The people who have surgery are "transsexuals" (TS).

However, what we have here are people who are "transgender" (TG).

TS are maybe 1% of TG.

Consider the strikingly different populations sheltering under the "Transgender Umbrella" (see screenshot).

According to Stonewall, it aims for "acceptance without exception" for "including (but not limited to)" people who may describe themselves as:

• transgender
• transsexual
• gender-queer (GQ)
• gender-fluid
• non-binary
• gender-variant
• crossdresser
• genderless
• agender
• nongender
• third gender
• two-spirit
• bi-gender
• trans man
• trans woman
• trans masculine
• trans feminine
• neutrois (a non-binary gender identity that falls under the genderqueer or transgender umbrellas).

(Stonewall Vision for Change 2017)

Many TG people vilify Transsexuals, calling them "trans medicalists" or more often and totally disgustingly, they misuse and abuse the "TS" initials to call them "TruScum".

Many Transsexuals understand that their "operations" do not mean that they become literally the opposite sex, they refer to themselves as men if they are male, and are opposed to the colonisation of women's sports.

Miranda Yardley, transsexual, has written about the "trans umbrella" being used to define many more people as "trans" than most people realise, so undermining the rights and safety of women and girls by stealth:

"Cross-dressing All The Way To The Top: Where All The Transvestites Have Gone."

mirandayardley.com/en/cross-dressing-all-the-way-to-the-top-where-all-the-transvestites-have-gone/

"Fair Play for Women" campaigns to protect Women's Sports in the UK:

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/sports-campaign/

"Save Women's Sports" is a good site for info on current problems and campaigning in the USA:

savewomenssports.com

"Women are Human" provides updates on this issue internationally:

www.womenarehuman.com/category/social/sports/

@Smallgoon

Where did I say I watch it? It's a vile sport regardless of who the competitors are.

What has your approval or otherwise of the sport got to do with the issue? Women are free to choose to do riskier sports.

But, even if we leave martial arts out completely, what about cycling, basketball, weightlifting, rugby, track and field? Those are all sports where trans women are now competing against women. How is that fair?

In the US, sports scholarships are a huge deal and the only chance for poorer students to go to a good college. Boys can now claim to ID as girls and take away their chance of a university education.

Outrageous that Fallon Fox won a sports person (woman?) of the year award for being outed for cheating! Even if at that time men were allowed to compete against women, the women they were fighting had a right to know. Why was lying rewarded like this? What was stunning and brave about it?

And that Kent cricketer who plays for the men's and women's team. Winning the best women's cricketer award. Gaslighting as it's finest. How do all the women in that county's cricket feel? Why aren't men being asked to 'be kind' to them. Or to the girls in the US losing their sports scholarships and titles against males. The sooner this shit is reversed the better. It's so obviously and outrageously wrong.

@winesalot
He clarified that he has taught his daughter that she should be happy to lose to a male because they have been included

but its a hypothetical daughter- it seems he has a son. like so many of the great men pronouncing on this, he has zero skin in the game.

@smallgoon i dont know what you think you're standing up for here- have you always been against womens sports or is it a more recent thing?

now that there's money and kudos in women's sport, men want in. Funny innit?

Shame on the governing bodies that think women should give up their sports to men.

And as for the father quoted upthread who is teaching his daughter that she should be happy to lose football games to boys because they feel happier idenitifying as girls. sexist arsehole

@BeautifulStar

Fallon Fox apparently decided to “become a woman” at 31 years of age. Just reading more about him, several people in the profession had their contracts suspended when speaking out about their disapproval. As well as being painted with the usual “transphobic” comments.

This looks like transition/'living as a woman' involved a new hairdo and tilting one's head in photos.

Kick boxing and other martial arts next. The federation is asking for non cis people (ie people that identify differently to their sex) to form a focus group for inclusiveness. Why exclude women and men from this focus group?

the-bkc.com/2021/01/23/gender-diversity-in-kickboxing/

I think it’s interesting that some of the most fervent supporters of trans ideology I know, when asked about the sport issue, tend to say they don’t know much about sport or aren’t interested in it so can’t comment. Almost as if even they know it’s indefensible.

Fallon had been a fully developed male for some time so the usual effect of the HRT would not deplete strength/bone density to the same extent as if transition happened as a younger person.

Could you please clarify what you mean here. The latest research shows that on average the effects of cross sex hormones have little effect once a person has gone through puberty on the advantages males have. If you have seen research countering this, please share it.

There's no certainty that the transgender athlete has an advantage.

Again, please share the research you have that indicates this. Because, the current research would disagree.

Sports medics are very much assessing this in order to regulate it better and I imagine it will end up needing individual assessments of key criteria. In the same way you have weight categories for boxing, you may be able to have assessments that determine the advantage or not of a transgender athlete.

Maybe you should follow some of the sports scientists (medics) who have been involved in these decisions. They are very clear. The advantages remain (in fact even very young prepubescent boys have biological advantages over females of the same age).

Separating by weight is not going equalize the advantages because males simply have more power (leverage, different musculature, oxygen to cells) than a woman. What else shall they separate on?

Which other protected category do you think sport should allow access to for those outside the category? Age? So a small adult should be able to compete in the under 16s category? How about a 20 year old competing in the 80 year old category if they are the same weight?

How about able bodied people competing in the Paralympics?

You do realize that this year, papers have been written acknowledging that there is advantages that will never be removed, but males who are transgender should compete with women anyway! Of course, this was written by a male who started their women’s cycling career in their 30s and immediately started winning. After being mediocre as a male cyclist.

Please share that research that refutes the latest two papers released.

Please also stop framing the concerns that women have for their safety, for their right to compete fairly as being anti-trans and phobic.

Those who do this, ignoring the research, only listening to those who want this at all costs to women, only listening to the ‘be kind’ message and not actually reading up on this for themselves, they are harming girls and women.

I think it’s interesting that some of the most fervent supporters of trans ideology I know, when asked about the sport issue, tend to say they don’t know much about sport or aren’t interested in it so can’t comment. Almost as if even they know it’s indefensible.

Yup, as on this thread, "Oh but I don't like any kind of fighting, so i can't say this is unfair/wrong!"

[quote Helmetbymidnight]@winesalot
He clarified that he has taught his daughter that she should be happy to lose to a male because they have been included

but its a hypothetical daughter- it seems he has a son. like so many of the great men pronouncing on this, he has zero skin in the game.

@smallgoon i dont know what you think you're standing up for here- have you always been against womens sports or is it a more recent thing?[/quote]
He has a grown daughter and a son. I thought Bear was another daughter?

So, he is lying to virtue signal for publicity for his book? Well he probably didn’t expect the ratio.

@Charley50

And that Kent cricketer who plays for the men's and women's team. Winning the best women's cricketer award. Gaslighting as it's finest. How do all the women in that county's cricket feel? Why aren't men being asked to 'be kind' to them. Or to the girls in the US losing their sports scholarships and titles against males. The sooner this shit is reversed the better. It's so obviously and outrageously wrong.

Indeed. Maxine Blythin has not only set some rather spectacular bowling records (in the women’s category) but also still plays for a local male team (but not setting such spectacular records against the men, in fact I think being a fairly bog standard player).

Why are people encouraging a mediocre male player to play against women and smash records?

In Connecticut (I think), two male born transgender runners now hold 20 female state records between them. These runners have had full advantage of male puberty and it is extremely unlikely that a female will ever come close to those records.

Cece Telfer, when running as Craig Telfer was ranked approx 300th. Running against women, Cece is suddenly a champion!! Joe Biden claims it is about transgender people right to be included in sports. Of course they should be included in sport but compete in the correct sex class.

Why is one group of males being allowed to compete against women when all other males are excluded? Why do we have sex segregation in sports at all?

SmallGoon

Your argument seems to be that if there is a level of risk already present in women's MMA (which there is), then we may as well throw in the towel and make it a free-for-all. That there is no point trying to minimise the risk by keeping it same sex.

That makes zero sense to me. We always try to reduce risk and we always should.

You say it's a matter for the sports medics to sort out. Yes it is, and we should be listening. Men punch 162% harder than a woman of equivalent weight. Which means that when I am in a sparring match with a man of the same weight who isn't holding back his punches, it is like trying to fend off an oncoming car with karate! I know this and have experienced this. Are you willing to listen to me?

We don't put heavyweights in with bantamweights in organised competition because it stops being a match of skill, and only the strongest wins. We don't put men in with women for organised competion because it then stops being a game of skill and only the strongest wins.