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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
CareBear50 · 14/02/2021 14:59

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
No
Love51 · 14/02/2021 14:59

@00100001

Childminder has said she can choose who she has and isn't legally obliged to take children if she can't deal with them.

Of course it's true. Think about it. If she had no way of helping a severely disabled child, you can't force her....

And besides, why would you insist on sending your child to an adult who has told you directly they don't want to have them?? Confused

I know some profoundly disabled children who go to a childminder. She is a specialist childminder who undergoes additional training and has her home set up to accommodate wheelchairs, changing of teenagers etc. I wouldn't expect every childminder to do what this lady does. My own children go to a different childminder. She only takes small children or ones that attend two specific schools as she wouldn't be able to collect a child from a third school. She has some rules that children are expected to adhere to, if they don't, she can stop working with them. There's a fine line where behaviour difficulties interact with certain disabilities, but ultimately each childminder needs to be able to keep all children in their care safe.
00100001 · 14/02/2021 15:00

And again...

Let's assume everyone agreed.

How will SIL Force the CM to take her daughter?

How??

Going to court??

Dumping the kid at her door step???

Confused
Original poster
minniemango · 14/02/2021 15:00

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.

OP posts:
Anyoneelsewilldo · 14/02/2021 15:00

@minniemango you your SIL and Brother are a disgrace. Only caring about whether you can force your DN on the childminder rather than deal with her problems and get her medical help.

A child pooing themselves every day is not toilet trainer.

I hope the CM escalates this to social services if your SIL refuses to get DN help and instead claims an incontinence disability to force her to mind the child.

Disgusting parenting.

Sparklesocks · 14/02/2021 15:00

That poor little girl. I hope her parents actually get her some help. How long will it continue otherwise?

Rinoachicken · 14/02/2021 15:02

But you are obsessed with the childminder when actually you should be concerned about your niece!

Anyoneelsewilldo · 14/02/2021 15:02

@00100001 @minniemango dumping the child on a doorstep seems like exactly the kind of thing this negligent family would do.

Meowtha · 14/02/2021 15:02

It's not discrimination at all.

A CM can terminate care of any child for any reason.

School is different.

AaronPurr · 14/02/2021 15:02

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
Why? Surely the time would be better spent encouraging your niece's parents to get her the help and support she needs, rather than continuing to try and find a way to force the childminder to continue to provide care. Confused
Heronwatcher · 14/02/2021 15:02

OP I really don’t think it’s wise for you to be so involved given how little you seem to know about this. The only thing I would say is that regardless of the legalities, she should not be sending the child where she is not wanted. If the childminder is saying this she either doesn’t want your DN there or she can’t cope. Either way, don’t try to force her to take her- this is 100% not fair on your DN.

00100001 · 14/02/2021 15:02

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
But 99.99% of people have already told you it not discrimination.

Plus, again, let's assume that they're wrong and it is illegal.
Now what??

How will you get the CM to loom after the child?

Write an email saying it's discrimination? Then what?

Is SIL going to take CM to court over this? Report to Ofsted?

ToastandJamandTea · 14/02/2021 15:03

The EYFS that the childminder has to follow states that childminders are able to care for older school age children as long as they DO NOT interfere with the care and education of the under 5's.
As a childminder who has had to help a older child clear up after a poo accident I can assure you it takes much longer than changing a nappy and has more risks of cross contamination.
It takes you away from the younger children and if this was happening regularly and the parents were unwilling to work in partnership I would be ending the contract swiftly.

4Mongrels · 14/02/2021 15:03

So your focus is on trying to make the CM take your niece rather than try to get help for the child.

What happened when your niece was in school?

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 14/02/2021 15:03

@Tibtom you're talking bollocks. Not if the CM does not have the facilities to cope with it, the correct ratios or whatever else which puts other children in her care at risk.

It would be like parents sending a diabetic or asthmatic child in with no diagnosis or treatment and expecting the CM to pick up the slack and manage somehow with no effort on their part. It wouldn't be discrimination to say I don't want this child in my setting as I can't safely care for them.

Same4Walls · 14/02/2021 15:03

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
Why does it actually matter. Honestly she's said she's not taking her any more your sister can't force her to take your niece so who cares if one or 2 posters say it's discrimination? Nothing is going to chnsge even if everyone agreed it wss unfair. She doesn't want to look after your niece anymore and 'proving' its unfair changes nothing.

Try focusing on the actual problem and tell your sister to get your poor niece some medical attention.

emilyfrost · 14/02/2021 15:04

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
There is no position here. The childminder doesn’t have to have this child.

Instead of trying to fight her when you’re in the wrong, get some professional help for this poor child because everyone around her is neglecting her and you don’t seem to care.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 15:05

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
What difference does it actually make to your poor niece what people think?

The CM cannot be forced to take a child. Even if it was discriminatory, which it's not, it would not result in that CM being forced to care for your niece.

Your SIL and brother are neglecting their child.

Why are you not focussing on what is actually important here - your niece's health.

Lemonsyellow · 14/02/2021 15:06

OP, There is no discrimination here. I’m truly baffled why you think there could be.

Same4Walls · 14/02/2021 15:06

Instead of trying to fight her when you’re in the wrong, get some professional help for this poor child because everyone around her is neglecting her and you don’t seem to care.

Indeed. It seems so flaming redundant to doggedly focus on getting proof the childminder is in the wrong when the much bigger picture of this child being neglected is so alarming.

Tibtom · 14/02/2021 15:07

All these posters saying it is not a disability then insisting the child should visit the GP because something is wrong?!? There also appears to be a lack of understanding about SEN if you think it is always identifed by 5. Huge numbers of children are diagnosed as autistic, adhd, dyspraxic, sensory processing disorders after they turn 5. Possibly even the majority.

Katy123g · 14/02/2021 15:07

I'm shocked that your sister hasnt taken her to the gp about this. Talking to a health visitor 2 years ago is irrelevant. 2 years is a massive period of time.
My son was still having poo accidents most days at 4 so I took him to the gp. The gp diagnosed constipation and prescribed movicol. I too though it couldn't be constipation as he was going most days. What was actually going on was he was holding it in, getting to the point where it hurt to go so he would hold it even more to the point where he couldn't hold it and went in his pants. It was a vicious cycle. Once the movicol had cleared him out and was making it pain free for him to go, the improvement was amazing.
He started school about 4 months after I took him to the gps and never had a single accident at school. She needs to go to the gp asap. Poor little girl.

midnightstar66 · 14/02/2021 15:08

It’s illegal as is discriminating*
Is this true? Childminder has said she can choose who she has and isn't legally obliged to take children if she can't deal with them.*

It's absolutely not true. School have to take her regardless as school a legal requirement for 5 year olds however they'd be stepping in if they were having to change a soiled child every day. A childminder is under no obligation and quite frankly I don't blame her. Your sister is being negligent leaving this - she asked 2 years ago? 3 is so very different to 5. 5 year olds do not shit themselves daily because they are lazy! I work in a year group with 80 5 year olds and yes they sometimes forget themselves and need changed in the busy environment but it should be less likely in a quiet home environment like a childminder. I've never yet had a dc that does this daily apart from the few with SEN who are in pull ups. This is not normal!

Feedingthebirds1 · 14/02/2021 15:09

It is disability discrimination. Faecal incontinence is a disability.

No it isn't. A PP has already listed the protected characteristics. Faecal incontinence is no more protected than chicken pox or measles. And would you want a childminder to be forced to look after a child with measles?

AaronPurr · 14/02/2021 15:10

@Tibtom

All these posters saying it is not a disability then insisting the child should visit the GP because something is wrong?!? There also appears to be a lack of understanding about SEN if you think it is always identifed by 5. Huge numbers of children are diagnosed as autistic, adhd, dyspraxic, sensory processing disorders after they turn 5. Possibly even the majority.
People are recommending the GP because it's likely this has been caused by consitpation, and now the child has lasting results from this not being dealt with. A child is suffering here, and it's not because the childminder has refused care, it's because her parent's have been neglectful.
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