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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
Aprilx · 15/02/2021 08:45

[quote B1rdinthebush]@Aprilx I haven't just stated it, I've provided evidence from the ERIC website in an earlier post. I can provide more evidence if that's not enough?

Also, my post wasn't about whether or not the childminder should have to care for the child or not, it was a response to posters saying that incontinence wasn't covered under the Equality Act. [/quote]
Yes please or could you tell me the timing on your post with this link. The only post I can see of yours with a link does not state that so perhaps I have missed one.

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 08:46

@midnightstar66 To be clear, that is in response to posters glibly claiming that it's nonsense that a child who is incontinent isn't protected by the Act.

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 08:47

@midnightstar66 *is protected

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 08:48

@Aprilx I posted last night at 22:57.

Here's the link I reference: www.eric.org.uk/help-at-school-faqs

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 15/02/2021 08:54

@poppycat10

Really, the mum is negligent if she hasn't chased up the issue with the registered gp

Yeah of course she is. You do realise GPs aren't seeing anyone at the moment unless you are very lucky?

The child has had issues for 2 years though. There hasn't been a pandemic for that long. If your child was soiling themselves daily would you really shrug your shoulders and go " well no point going to the GP, they won't see her anyways" ?
Same4Walls · 15/02/2021 08:58

The child has had issues for 2 years though. There hasn't been a pandemic for that long. If your child was soiling themselves daily would you really shrug your shoulders and go " well no point going to the GP, they won't see her anyways" ?

Exactly this is a problem that should have been dealt with long before the pandemic. The parents obviously know its an issue or they wouldn't have spoke to the health visitor and gp friend all that time ago.

I also feel its very unreasonable to spout nonsense that the GP won't see you because of covid. If the issue requires assessment of course they will see the child. Yes it might take longer or be via a virtual consultation but they're not going to ignore the issue just because of Covid.

MaverickSnoopy · 15/02/2021 09:20

Registered Childminder here. I suspect there is more to this story and the reasons behind why the Childminder feels she cannot continue as things are.

Firstly, the Childminder will likely have a policy on potty training, so your SIL could ask to see that. Secondly, Childminders look after lots if children at once and are duty bound to meet the needs of all children. Possibly, the Childminder may be finding that the accidents are stopping her from meeting the needs of other children. Perhaps it's not something she can manage anymore. Childminders as a group are pretty much on their knees at the moment and this may be too much for her. You have to also consider her wellbeing if she is saying it is too much. Could the child be having accidents on purpose? That's a whole different thing to deal with. Also remember that this is their home and if a child is constantly urinating on their furniture, it may be more than they can manage, perhaps things are getting ruined.

I've not spoken to a Childminder yet who isn't willing to support a child who needs help with accidents, but equally there comes a point when something needs to be done. If this has been going on for a couple of years then that's a terribly long time and terribly unfair on the child. I've looked after 4 & 5 yos before who haven't quite made it to the toilet, that's fine and I expect that, but if it's an ongoing thing and parents aren't getting proper support then I would be logging it as as a potential safeguarding concern on the basis of potential neglect (although I wouldn't "do" anything as such unless there were other worrying signs).

Discrimination? Not on the basis of what I've read here. Even if the child had SEN, if the Childminder feels unable to meet their needs, then they are perfectly within their rights to give notice. The child needs to be looked after who CAN meet their needs, not someone who says they can't. Who wants someone looking after their child who says they can't manage it, or manage to balance the needs of all of the children they look after. Being a Childminder can be hard.

midnightstar66 · 15/02/2021 09:21

As far as I can see that whole piece is specific to schools and doesn't cover a child with no medical or parental intervention who is just 'lazy' it is expected that in order to accommodate, that IHCP's are put in place and lots of parent/professional communication so parents have to hold up their part in order for the SCHOOL to accommodate them too. It's not a blanket law that says every childcare provider must accommodate a dc regardless of continence.

DinosaurDigestive · 15/02/2021 09:34

@BenoneBeauty Ahh but still worth mentioning after reading what you had posted when quoted a poster whose child attended a special needs school and asked "who should do this then" and
"that teachers don't have time to be changing kids who should be toilet trained"

There are one to ones who help assist and there are many children out there who do need help due to a variety of different reasons some of which are not obviously apparent.

Doesn't take away from the fact that this poor girl desperately needs a doctor's appointment. Somehow I can't see it happening for her unless a concern form is put in

ElephantsNest · 15/02/2021 09:36

What Maverick Snoopy said.

whattodo2019 · 15/02/2021 09:39

I would expect a 5 year old to be totally
toilet trained and at that age i wouldn't want to be dealing with 'poo' accidents. .....
Is there a problem?

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 09:42

@midnightstar66 🙄 I'm not claiming that's what it is. Look, if the childminder can't fulfil the child's needs then of course it's fine for her to refuse to have her in her care. And of course the OP's sister should be seeking the correct medical intervention.

My point is, AGAIN, that we can't just glibly say that kids who have continence issues can just be excluded from education etc because of it. Many posters on this thread seem to think they can.

I'm not going to contribute to this thread anymore because it's frankly exhausting. I hope your sister access the help your DN needs, OP.

CocoPark · 15/02/2021 10:06

No idea on legal aspects but come on, it is not right to expect a reluctant childminder to deal with 5 year old poo accidents in her own home on a daily basis.
Instead of looking for dubious legal technicalities to try and force her, your SIL's efforts would be much better spent resolving the real issue which is her child's toileting.

midnightstar66 · 15/02/2021 10:51

Nobody has said they can be excluded from education though. You're basically arguing with yourself. Everyone is well aware that's different. The legislation you're referring to is specific to schools and they can 'glibly' say it's not discrimination in this case, as it is not on its own a protected characteristic. That is correct but has been amended specifically for school access which is a legal right in its self. The childminder cannot say sorry I cannot take your 5 year old because she is black despite being a private business but as you recognise she can say

UndertheCedartree · 15/02/2021 10:57

Not potty trained is one thing. Not having accidents is quite another. All DC have accidents sometimes when little. I really wouldn't want to send my DC to a childminder that had such a negative view about something entirely normal as she could make DC ashamed for something they shouldn't be.

Tibtom · 15/02/2021 11:01

[quote B1rdinthebush]@midnightstar66 🙄 I'm not claiming that's what it is. Look, if the childminder can't fulfil the child's needs then of course it's fine for her to refuse to have her in her care. And of course the OP's sister should be seeking the correct medical intervention.

My point is, AGAIN, that we can't just glibly say that kids who have continence issues can just be excluded from education etc because of it. Many posters on this thread seem to think they can.

I'm not going to contribute to this thread anymore because it's frankly exhausting. I hope your sister access the help your DN needs, OP. [/quote]
Absolutely! Incontinence is a disability and as such a protected characteristic. A childminder is offering a service to the public and is therefore covered by the equality act.

Same4Walls · 15/02/2021 11:03

@UndertheCedartree

Not potty trained is one thing. Not having accidents is quite another. All DC have accidents sometimes when little. I really wouldn't want to send my DC to a childminder that had such a negative view about something entirely normal as she could make DC ashamed for something they shouldn't be.
There is absolutely nothing normal about a child soiling themselves daily and the parents doing nothing to resolve the issue. Confused
UndertheCedartree · 15/02/2021 11:05

Sorry didn't RTFT. Sounds like the family need some support to deal with the issue/ check if there is something medically wrong.

But at the end of the day the childminder can choose which DC they look after.

UndertheCedartree · 15/02/2021 11:06

@Same4Walls - I'm guilty of not having RTFT - sorry! Blush

Blondeshavemorefun · 15/02/2021 11:32

Poor 5yr. Obv some issues and seems your sister doesn’t want to deal with them

She needs to take dd to gp and speak to a proper consultant

If cm had had her for years and was pt at 3 and now 5 but soils most days

That’s 2yrs of cm having to clean up daily poo

Not surprised she’s had enough. She has other children to deal with as well

Viviennemary · 15/02/2021 11:45

Even if a child did have a disaability I'm sure the childminder would have a right to say they couldn't meet their needs if the child required a lot of extra care or one to one care. In any case this child is not disabled. They haven't been toilet trained properly. If it's a medical issue I'd say the parents were very negligent letting it go untreated for so long.

RuledbyASD · 15/02/2021 11:48

From what you've said @minniemango I'd be concerned that the child may have Crohn's disease? Sounds very similar

Levirandal · 15/02/2021 11:51

It’s not disability discrimination which is a protected characteristic. Please encourage your family to seek help for your DN. I have two children who are autistic and one at 8 is still non verbal and was toilet trained by 3. The family really need to explore the medical issues behind what is happening with your niece. Your SIL’s gp without a proper consultation shouldn’t be deciding your DN is lazy. The childminder can stop taking who they want to.

RuledbyASD · 15/02/2021 12:00

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

I just can't understand why people are not potty training their children anymore. Or teaching them to read or doing anything at all with them. My son was fully potty trained at three, it was bloody hard work but we did it. I don't think people want to put the work in, they just assume they will train themselves eventually.
I beg your pardon?!?! My child was fully potty trained and could read AND WRITE before she started reception. How very dare you?!?!?!
RuledbyASD · 15/02/2021 12:04

@minniemango THE CHILD MAY HAVE CROHNS DISEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*THE CHILD MAY HAVE CROHNS DISEASE!!
*
^THE CHILD MAY HAVE CROHNS DISEASE!!!!!!
^
Obviously I hope to God she doesn't, but PLEASE stop ignoring this....