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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
SirusTheVirus · 15/02/2021 03:48

The CM is BU!

For not referring the parents to children’s services for neglect!

Give your head a wobble OP and tell your sister to be a parent and take the child to the GP.

If she doesn’t, make the neglect referral yourself! Poor child!

Belledan1 · 15/02/2021 04:08

Sorry if the has been suggested. Has your sister in law checked her out for lactose intolerance or alike. My friends son had lots poo accidents but fine re wee and they diagnosed lactose. Once his diet sorted he had hardly any accidents.

sashh · 15/02/2021 04:20

It’s illegal as is discriminating

Not all discrimination is illegal. We don't let blind people drive cars or 3 year olds to vote.

Tumbleweed101 · 15/02/2021 07:14

Cleaning up a child who has soiled their underwear takes about three times longer than changing a soiled nappy. The mess can get everywhere - down their legs and over the mat. Then the clothing needs dealing with. If childminder is caring for several children alone I can see why she’d be reluctant to be doing this daily with an older child. Occasional accidents are part of caring for children but daily ones are a different ball game and a five yo shouldn’t be doing this unless they have other issues.

Ploughingthrough · 15/02/2021 07:14

Mine were confident and accident after by 5, but in reception the teacher would quite often hand a bag of wet pants and tights or trousers to a parent at the door. It's not unheard of. But regular day time accidents in a non SEN child age 5 would be a cause for concern.

Carycy · 15/02/2021 07:27

I just can't understand why people are not potty training their children anymore.... My son was fully potty trained at three, it was bloody hard work but we did it. I don't think people want to put the work in, they just assume they will train themselves eventually

We started potty training ours at the normal time. It was a constant battle for two years. It was not lazyness on our part. Our daughter was potty trained in a week. Don’t assume just because you were able to with one child that it’s the same with every child.

I am not saying don’t tale to the Drs just that it gets in my nerves people saying your child must have SEN all the time when they don’t follow the expected timelines . Kids aren’t allowed to grow or develop in their own time without being jumped on these days. Maybe I am just defensive because of people trying to assess my own son all the time instead of just giving him a bit of time. It feels like every other excitable boy that goes to school and struggles to conform in the first year starts getting assessed for adhd. Maybe we just expect too much of our young children.

3rdNamechange · 15/02/2021 07:29

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
It's not discrimination.
Tinkerbell456 · 15/02/2021 07:34

At 5, yep, the child should be potty ( well, toilet trained ). However, surely it wouldn’t be possible to guarantee absolutely no accidents ever at that age. When I was that age, I would have accidents because two girls in my class would terrorise me if I went to the toilets and wouldn’t let me out. Hello, Erica and Lorraine! Of course, I avoided going and sometimes left it to long, because I was scared.

PegasusReturns · 15/02/2021 07:40

Your DN needs to see a GP. Unless you have reasons to believe this is behavioural (it is manifesting elsewhere?) then I’d bet this is severe constipation (children can poo every day and still be constipated) which has led to muscle control issues.

It will take time to a) get a diagnosis and b) fix it so she needs to start pushing.

CottonSock · 15/02/2021 07:47

A tell tale sign of encopresis is the kid actually potty trains easily. Then has issues around the age they start school. They hold in poo, making them constipated more and more over time. So initially the holding in makes potty training easy.
So less of the lazy kid / parent bullshit. MNHQ have deleted one comment in that tone.

CaffiSaliMali · 15/02/2021 07:55

I had bladder issues as a child and saw specialists from a very young age, much younger than your 5 year old niece.

I wasn't diagnosed with the two underlying conditions causing the issue until I was an adult - 21 for the first and 25 for the second.

Your niece may well have a serious underlying issue and your sister hasn't even taken her to a doctor yet. That is the issue here.

The sooner your niece starts investigations the better.

Aprilx · 15/02/2021 07:59

[quote B1rdinthebush]@Menora I'll spell it out again for you, seeing as you seem to think I'm on a one woman mission to threaten childminders:

  1. People on this thread have adamantly claimed that incontinence is not a protected characteristic.

  2. I have provided evidence from the ERIC website that this in not the case as it is actually classed as a disability.

  3. I have advised the OP that it sounds like her niece is suffering with impaction and should be referred to the relevant medical professionals.

  4. I haven't made any comment on whether the childminder should or should not accept the child.[/quote]
    You haven’t provided any evidence, you have just stated it.

I think you are misreading anyway, the Equality Act states a school must not refuse admission to a child that is not toilet trained due to a disability. It does not state that not being toilet trained is a disability.

Schmoozer · 15/02/2021 08:05

Omg
Gp - start to tackle the problem
Stop wanting CM to sort the poo !!

Doing kid NO favours here !!! Sloppy.

BunnyRuddington · 15/02/2021 08:14

So what has your DSis decided to do @minniemango? Has she seen this thread? Has she decided to speak to the GP, today?

Where is DN today?

LadyTruck · 15/02/2021 08:14

So Mum isn't meeting her child's needs; because she won't address them via the GP etc, and is expecting the CM to deal with it.

I don't think the CM is being unreasonable

poppycat10 · 15/02/2021 08:33

I just can't understand why people are not potty training their children anymore.... My son was fully potty trained at three, it was bloody hard work but we did it. I don't think people want to put the work in, they just assume they will train themselves eventually

I think you need to and look at the ERIC website. There are lots of children who have problems with toileting, even into their teens, and it has nothing to do with inadequate "parenting". I know MNers like to think everything that ever goes wrong is to do with parents not doing their job properly but disappointingly that just isn't the case.

And why does everyone always say "go to the GP2? In what world can you see your GP and they actually do something? Especially at the moment?

saffire · 15/02/2021 08:33

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
It makes no difference. The CM is having children in her home, it's her right to say if she can adequately care for a child or not. And if she's pooing or dirty, it will take considerable time and attention away from the other children in her care.

Really, the mum is negligent if she hasn't chased up the issue with the registered gp (not just spoken to one of her mates). If it is laziness as her friend suggests, why is she allowing her child to continue? Why isn't she looking out for her child and trying to sort the issue?

poppycat10 · 15/02/2021 08:34

@CottonSock

A tell tale sign of encopresis is the kid actually potty trains easily. Then has issues around the age they start school. They hold in poo, making them constipated more and more over time. So initially the holding in makes potty training easy. So less of the lazy kid / parent bullshit. MNHQ have deleted one comment in that tone.
This.
poppycat10 · 15/02/2021 08:34

Really, the mum is negligent if she hasn't chased up the issue with the registered gp

Yeah of course she is. You do realise GPs aren't seeing anyone at the moment unless you are very lucky?

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 08:37

@Aprilx I haven't just stated it, I've provided evidence from the ERIC website in an earlier post. I can provide more evidence if that's not enough?

Also, my post wasn't about whether or not the childminder should have to care for the child or not, it was a response to posters saying that incontinence wasn't covered under the Equality Act.

midnightstar66 · 15/02/2021 08:39

Yeah of course she is. You do realise GPs aren't seeing anyone at the moment unless you are very lucky?

You can still contact them and revive treatment/referrals 🙄

BunnyRuddington · 15/02/2021 08:39

Yeah of course she is. You do realise GPs aren't seeing anyone at the moment unless you are very lucky

It doesn't stop you ringing them though does it? We've had to contact the GP a couple of times during this Pandemic and both times we've had telephone appointments and that's been fine.

The Parents of the child first raised concerns about the issue 2 years ago, the Pandemic hadn't stopped them ringing a GP for 2 years.

midnightstar66 · 15/02/2021 08:40

Also, my post wasn't about whether or not the childminder should have to care for the child or not, it was a response to posters saying that incontinence wasn't covered under the Equality Act.

The question is specifically whether a childminder can refuse though. A school can't ... a childminder can. Your evidence is irrelevant to the question

Schmoozer · 15/02/2021 08:43

Yes - saying GP’s aren’t seeing anyone is unhelpful / harmful

They are operating differently but assessing, treating, referring to specialist services etc etc

NHS has been actively encouraging parents to access healthcare for their kids when required
As they are concerned that numbers of kids accessing healthcare through the pandemic are so low
Clearly the message is going through enough !!!!

B1rdinthebush · 15/02/2021 08:45

@midnightstar66 I'm not sure how many times I have to reiterate that I'm not passing comment on whether the childminder has to care for the child or not!

I am merely pointing out that incontinence is classed as a disability and thus protected under the Equality Act. That's literally it.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is what the act says about what classes as a disability: "The Act defines disability as when a person has a ‘physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long term adverse effect on that person’s ability to carry out normal day to day activities."

Having an NT five year old who wets and poos herself around ten times a day, I can ASSURE you that it has a substantial and long term adverse effect on her ability to carry out normal day to day activities.