Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

[wirldsgonemad]

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

Just seen on the BBC website that eviction bans have been extended for another six weeks. Sorry if anyone has said this previously, I haven’t read the whole thing.

The tenants had a 6 month tenancy. The S21 could have been issued in December

But it wasn’t. The landlord thought a verbal instruction was enough and then found out it wasn’t
That is where the problem lies.
The tenants aren’t refusing to move out when they have to. They are not breaking any rules by being in the property for the next 6 months.

Whilst offering money might help but in their position they might find there isn’t a place for similar money in the area they need and so it would be pointless to move and pay more then move again.

Ok. I don’t actually know when the tenancy started. OP just said that the agent hoped the tenants would leave after a verbal request to vacate after the end of their six month contract.

I think it is important to be clear, as tenants and others are reading the thread.

Tenancies used to be six moth minimum. Four months before notice can be given and then two months S21 notice.

Agents tell me they are now issuing ten month contracts. Four months before notice can be issued, then six month S21 notice.

The actual tenancy length does not matter, as if no S21 is issued and if a new contract is not agreed, it simply rolls over into a statutory periodic, with the same terms including the same rent, except the tenant only has to give one month notice.

@Bythemillpond

The tenants had a 6 month tenancy. The S21 could have been issued in December

But it wasn’t. The landlord thought a verbal instruction was enough and then found out it wasn’t
That is where the problem lies.
The tenants aren’t refusing to move out when they have to. They are not breaking any rules by being in the property for the next 6 months.

Whilst offering money might help but in their position they might find there isn’t a place for similar money in the area they need and so it would be pointless to move and pay more then move again.

I know. I was addressing the ten month comment

Giving S21 notice in December would not have helped OP, as notice would have been for six months, so she would be missed the stamp duty deadline. And since the S21 notice does not transfer with the tenancy, if she then bought the property without vacant possession she would have had to have issued the six month S21 all over again.

@Needmoresleep

Giving S21 notice in December would not have helped OP, as notice would have been for six months, so she would be missed the stamp duty deadline. And since the S21 notice does not transfer with the tenancy, if she then bought the property without vacant possession she would have had to have issued the six month S21 all over again.

It would have helped her know two months ago that there was going to be a fourth month delay.

There was no question of the OP buying without vacant posession. She's been quite clear about that - it's not acceptable with her type of mortgage so that's a moot point.

@Needmoresleep

Ok. I don’t actually know when the tenancy started. OP just said that the agent hoped the tenants would leave after a verbal request to vacate after the end of their six month contract.

I think it is important to be clear, as tenants and others are reading the thread.

Tenancies used to be six moth minimum. Four months before notice can be given and then two months S21 notice.

Agents tell me they are now issuing ten month contracts. Four months before notice can be issued, then six month S21 notice.

The actual tenancy length does not matter, as if no S21 is issued and if a new contract is not agreed, it simply rolls over into a statutory periodic, with the same terms including the same rent, except the tenant only has to give one month notice.

It is important to be clear. Which is why it was important to address the ten month comment.

The OP updated the thread at several points so these particular tenants started a six month tenancy in August. The LL could have given the notice in December, but didn't bother their arse. Instead they only gave it in the last week or two. If they had bothered in December they'd have discovered the temporary change from two months notice to six.

Just another example of a greedy LL who didn't bother their arse to know what they were obliged to do to bring a tenancy to an end.

Yet where housing is concerned, tenants routinely refuse to vacate and withhold rent until the courts force them out. And they have no obligation to repay any arrears,

Simply not true. Arrears will be a judgment debt for which the tenants remain fully liable. A landlord may take the view that it's not worth pursuing them for the arrears, but that's another matter.

And the OP cannot buy a tenanted property on a residental mortgage

Actually our mortgage broker advised that it is quite hard to get a BTL mortgage to buy a tenanted property. Much, much easier, to find other ways of financing the purchase, then get a mortgage in place once you own it And that is experienced landlords. Mortgage companies are reluctant to lend new BTL mortgages to inexperienced landlords unless they have a lot of cover in terms of rent, income and equity.

@Needmoresleep

And the OP cannot buy a tenanted property on a residental mortgage

Actually our mortgage broker advised that it is quite hard to get a BTL mortgage to buy a tenanted property. Much, much easier, to find other ways of financing the purchase, then get a mortgage in place once you own it And that is experienced landlords. Mortgage companies are reluctant to lend new BTL mortgages to inexperienced landlords unless they have a lot of cover in terms of rent, income and equity.

That's neither here nor there?

The OP cannot buy a house without vacant possession on a residential mortgage. Therefore the comments about the OP becoming the LL are irrelevant.

Lyra, it’s not that hard to keep up.

I get regular email updates from NRLA which alert me to changes which might impact me as a landlord. Easy to read the ones that are relevant. (For example earlier in the week there was one on the Government’s new announcement on cladding which, luckily, does not affect me, so I skipped.) So about £100 a year (tax deductible as I need it for landlord registration), 15 minutes reading a week, and a call to the helpline if I need clarification. Not rocket science.

Properties are valuable assets, worth far more than a six month tenancy. The vendor is not just greedy, he is foolish.

Lyra, some others suggested she should buy, and wait for the tenants to vacate. She can’t.

@Needmoresleep

Lyra, it’s not that hard to keep up.

I get regular email updates from NRLA which alert me to changes which might impact me as a landlord. Easy to read the ones that are relevant. (For example earlier in the week there was one on the Government’s new announcement on cladding which, luckily, does not affect me, so I skipped.) So about £100 a year (tax deductible as I need it for landlord registration), 15 minutes reading a week, and a call to the helpline if I need clarification. Not rocket science.

Properties are valuable assets, worth far more than a six month tenancy. The vendor is not just greedy, he is foolish.

Hence why I said the LL was just another example of a greedy twat who didn't bother.

No idea why you've taken such a patronising tone with me, I've said numerous time through the thread that I think LL's should have to be registered.

As a long-time LL people like the OP's vendor enrage me because being a LL is a responsibility. Too many don't view it as such.

@Needmoresleep

Ok. I don’t actually know when the tenancy started. OP just said that the agent hoped the tenants would leave after a verbal request to vacate after the end of their six month contract.

I think it is important to be clear, as tenants and others are reading the thread.

Tenancies used to be six moth minimum. Four months before notice can be given and then two months S21 notice.

Agents tell me they are now issuing ten month contracts. Four months before notice can be issued, then six month S21 notice.

The actual tenancy length does not matter, as if no S21 is issued and if a new contract is not agreed, it simply rolls over into a statutory periodic, with the same terms including the same rent, except the tenant only has to give one month notice.

All of this is addressed many times in the thread. Many times.

@Needmoresleep

Lyra, some others suggested she should buy, and wait for the tenants to vacate. She can’t.

As she said herself. More than once.

I was not intending to be patronising.

This thread is very long and all sorts of odd statements have been made. (Send in the thugs!)

In case a tenant or landlord is confused it is probably worth repeating every so often, how S21 operates now. It is clear that is not universal knowledge.

I also wanted to promote NRLA, essential expenditure for any novice landlord. (Last year I watched my student DDs greedy landlord make one rookie mistake after another: no inventory, no local letting agent, no up to date contract, no S21 notice, no HMO licence, no response when basic H&M items were reported and so on. He seemed to think bullying was the way forward. Lots in DDs back pocket had he ever tried it on her.)

I am not convinced about registration. My impression is that each time there is any form of new requirement, good landlords comply, others don’t. If estate agents are to be believed, very very few landlords have bothered with HMO licensing in one borough. It was seriously expensive even though our property was already well maintained (the borough supposedly has the most onerous requirements in the UK). Unless enforcement happens it is simply a tax on the better landlords. This borough won’t enforce. Their council housing wait list is about 100 years long and they can’t afford for landlords to sell up and make their tenants homeless.

Which borough has more requirements than the Scottish Landlord Registration system?

Saying it again as it’s worth repeating on this shitty thread.

Tenants are not lesser people than homeowners- most pay substantial (and unreasonable) amounts of money to house their families in often substandard conditions

Most are normal working people who are priced out of a ridiculous housing market

Housing policy needs a dramatic overhaul in this country to allow lifetime tenancies if people want them as per many places in the continent

Homeowners are not better or more entitled than tenants - some of the comments on this thread are disgusting, entitled nonsense

Tenants are entitled to want to decorate and make their homes their own too

Houses that tenants live in are THEIR HOMES too

This thread is appalling.

In a long thread like this, it's a pity there's not a facility to add a summary at the beginning, to cover all the main points that have come up in the thread, and to correct the misinformation.

Lyra, I have no idea. Scotland is a long way away and has a different legal system, especially when it comes to property matters. I don’t think OP is in Scotland. I know people claim that Scotland is some sort of housing idyll, but I suspect this is partly down to not having the pressure on housing that we have in London.

@Needmoresleep

Lyra, I have no idea. Scotland is a long way away and has a different legal system, especially when it comes to property matters. I don’t think OP is in Scotland. I know people claim that Scotland is some sort of housing idyll, but I suspect this is partly down to not having the pressure on housing that we have in London.

My question was nothing to do with the OP, but in regard to your statement that your borough supposedly has the most onerous requirements in the UK.

Who is saying tenants are shitty people. Come on. Tenants and landlords are equal partners in a contractual relationship. Both have responsibilities. There are good and bad landlords and good and bad tenants. Tenants have a lot of legal protection., with plenty of advice available. Any good landlord knows, in the same way that anyone in a contractural relationship knows, that it is important to work with your contractual partner. Problems will come up: COVID, the gas main outside one flat is being dug up next week (and gas central heating!), illness and unemployment. You need a good relationship in order to work through problems.

Abusing either tenants or landlords as a general class is not acceptable and does not take any debate any where.

@WinterIsGone

In a long thread like this, it's a pity there's not a facility to add a summary at the beginning, to cover all the main points that have come up in the thread, and to correct the misinformation.

It certainly is!