Is being shy something that needs to be changed?

[Daydreamermummy]

I've just had my teenagers school report. Its all good. No complaints from subject teachers. His form tutor has only concentrated on him being quiet. Fair enough, he is quiet, so am I. I think she has pushed it too far by saying she is still hoping that she can change this. She said therefore she will be asking him more questions in PSCHE. My older children are all quiet, all hold down jobs etc. AIBU to think that you can't just change someone to not be shy and that it isn't always a negative thing?

Being quiet not a problem. Being too shy to ask someone for help & advice when they need it a problem. I had a rather lovely A level statistics teacher who tried valiantly to get me to speak up in class - sadly he failed but the intention was good. Being shy did impact me career wise as networking was nigh on impossible for me.

I think it depends on how he feels about it. If he's happy how he is, it's none of her business going about deciding who needs to change.

If he wants some support in learning how to be a bit more outgoing/sociable, then it's good that she's offering that to him.

What does he feel about her comment?

@suggestionsplease1

She possibly sees it as a barrier to him being able to achieve / demonstrate his full potential.

I do a lot of work in education and the quiet students can tend to fly under the radar a lot and maybe don't build the connections and networks that other students do and generally struggle to put themselves out there so much.

It can be a problem if they become avoidant of speaking situations...only take the classes that have no presentations...only go to the interviews if they don't have a panel set-up etc. It can become quite limiting if shyness manifests in these ways - life options can become cut off.

He is very academic and in the top sets so it isn't holding his education back. He competes in gymnastics which I think shows he has confidence. His form tutor knows this. She also knows he has a good group of friends. The comments about him being quiet was all she wrote about in her comments. He has attended every zoom lessons since Jan and I've had an email congratulating him on this from the head of year yet in his report all she commented on was his personality, none of his achievements.

It's because as a teacher, you have to get everyone to engage. From an observer's (a shit one) pov, a kid quietly sitting there taking it all in, isn't engaged. There's a sweet spot between being an attention seeking arse and saying nothing.

Being the former myself and having friends who are the latter, I think there is room for all types in a classroom and I understand that often quiet kids would rather die than speak.

One of my shyest students would never, ever speak,came out of themselves a little more by a level and more does open mic nights etc. Now It just takes time.

@Eckhart to be honest he really isn't bothered by it. He says that she doesn't really know him. I just didn't like the comment about her still hoping he will change.

You need to be able to stand up for yourself and not get taken advantage of. And carry out basic life tasks like calling the doctor and ordering your own food in a restaurant.
But I really hate this idea that being outgoing is the better/correct way and everyone should aim for that. Shy people are often just as awesome, funny, witty etc as outgoing people and there's nothing wrong with it at all. If she said it to my face in a parents evening I'd definitely tell her that I dont think being shy is a bad things and it's not something he should feel he has to change.

One of my staff, an ex teacher, proudly told him that there was no such thing as a shy child leaving his class.

I replied that I'd had teachers like that and loathed every second of "being brought out of my shell". Because really it means being brought into someone else's loud and noisy shell so THEY can enjoy your company, however little you enjoy theirs.

It's extroverts like that who give the breed a bad name - introversion seen and treated as a flaw to be corrected, not an equal state of value.

[quote Daydreamermummy]@GreenlandTheMovie his tutor used the word quiet. I don't think my son is shy so what word should I use? I don't want my son to think he needs to be changed.[/quote]
I have absolutely no idea - how on earth would I know that?

You are an adult, you choose which words you use and you know why you use them.

I don't think "quiet" is something that is really sought after in the workplace, so maybe think how your son can better describe himself. It does honestly come across that you think "being quiet" is some sort of great thing in itself which should be promoted, and something that is really sought out in some way.

I think getting feedback like that can be really useful if you don't take it as a criticism but use it to work on some areas of weakness.

Its all a little bit baffling trying to communicate with you!

[quote Daydreamermummy]@Eckhart to be honest he really isn't bothered by it. He says that she doesn't really know him. I just didn't like the comment about her still hoping he will change.[/quote]
I think she should be changing herself, not others. I hope that's also the attitude she recommends to her pupils as well, although I doubt it, because part of it is 'Stay away from people who want you to change against your will', which would get in the way of her teaching him (and presumably any introverts)

The fact that he says she doesn't know him says it all. He has good boundaries. She is blundering over them.

@GreenlandTheMovie nobody else seems to have a problem with communicating with me and I don't think there is any need to be rude just because you have a different opinion to me. You are the one that criticised me for using the word quiet which is why I asked you what word you think I should be using. His tutor was the one that used the word quiet on his report.
I have already said that not all of my children are quiet and that their dad is an extrovert. All of my children are very different so I certainly don't promote children being quiet as I would be putting down some of my own children. I think that children shouldn't be made to be someone that they are not.

@thecatsthecats I was told exactly the same when I have always been happy being who I am. I agree that whether you are an introvert or an extrovert they should be seen as equal. I think you are who you are.

[quote Daydreamermummy]@GreenlandTheMovie nobody else seems to have a problem with communicating with me and I don't think there is any need to be rude just because you have a different opinion to me. You are the one that criticised me for using the word quiet which is why I asked you what word you think I should be using. His tutor was the one that used the word quiet on his report.
I have already said that not all of my children are quiet and that their dad is an extrovert. All of my children are very different so I certainly don't promote children being quiet as I would be putting down some of my own children. I think that children shouldn't be made to be someone that they are not.[/quote]
I'm very sorry - I certainly didn't mean to be rude. I was trying to be helpful. I just thought that you might be interested in hearing from a university lecturer who is constantly having to deal with students who have left school unequipped with the ability to speak in even small groups.

I'll make sure to steer clear of you in future, so I don't offend you further.

[quote Daydreamermummy]@GreenlandTheMovie nobody else seems to have a problem with communicating with me and I don't think there is any need to be rude just because you have a different opinion to me. You are the one that criticised me for using the word quiet which is why I asked you what word you think I should be using. His tutor was the one that used the word quiet on his report.
I have already said that not all of my children are quiet and that their dad is an extrovert. All of my children are very different so I certainly don't promote children being quiet as I would be putting down some of my own children. I think that children shouldn't be made to be someone that they are not.[/quote]
I think the idea that it would be making your DS into someone he's not is fundamentally flawed. Anymore than making someone who doesn't like running do cross country would change them into someone they aren't. Assuming he's not actually shy and there's no anxiety there, at worst it's just practice at something he doesn't particularly want to do. It's not a personality transplant.

There is nothing wrong with being quiet or shy. In the USA, if you are shy (and have health insurance!) it’s treated as a psychiatric disorder and medicated and therapy given. Over here, can you imagine going to your GP and telling them you are shy! There’s no mental health provision as it is.

I’m never going to be a career high flyer but I’ve found myself a niche in the civil service where I don’t need to do presentations or network or any of that.

All of my reports for the whole of my school life was "...she needs more confidence"

It was all the time.

I remember thinking "if I could BUY confidence I would, stop mentioning it all the time!"
I think I realised then that I might have finally got some :) (not relevant to your post but it just brought back the memory!)

As someone who was painfully shy as a child with zero self confidence, the worst thing anyone could do to me was to make an issue out of my shyness. It just gave me a complex, dented my self confidence even further and made me retreat further into my shell.

@lazylinguist

Why are people implying that loud is the opposite of shy? It isn't. It's perfectly possible to be confident or non-shy without being loud! You can even be 'quietly confident'. There might occasionally be benefits to being loud,but there are lots of benefits to being confident or not being shy. But we are all different. Some people are shy, and that's ok, but they will probably benefit from working on trying to be a bit less shy.

We are all different it will not hold you back in life because you are shy. This is your own assumption. People are often shy initially not constantly the whole time it doesn’t make you incapable in anyway.

People who are shy it’s their personality and it cannot be helped it’s like someone who isn’t naturally slim and me saying “just diet” it’s not as simple as that if that’s your natural nature.

There is a great book called 'Quiet: the power of introverts' by Susan Cain (I think). Might be worth a read. I don't think there's anything wrong with being quiet. Everyone is different. Shyness to me suggests social anxiety on some level, which is different and could be limiting. But if your son is just naturally quiet but not anxious then there's no issue imo. I think teachers need to create an environment that allows all kids to participate in a way they feel happy to do (sharing ideas in pairs first etc) asking a quiet kid more questions is worst possible thing imo as a former quiet kid! I needed time to think of my answers etc

I had this as a child from my teachers and DD now gets it too. We absorb information very well and pass our exams and can bore you on English Literature and History but because we both don't like to put our hand up teachers think it's some kind of impediment.

In our last parent-teacher meeting I told all the teachers who pointed out DD's introverted nature that it was part of her personality, her whole being, and there can be no changing it. Trying to be someone you are not is detrimental to your mental health.

”People who are shy it’s their personality and it cannot be helped it’s like someone who isn’t naturally slim and me saying “just diet” it’s not as simple as that if that’s your natural nature.”

This isn’t true. While there is a genetic tendency towards shyness for some people, it’s a learnt response to situations and it can be unlearned. It’s not some essential part of your personality.

YANBU. I’m a teacher - and I was quiet and shy as a teen. It’s not nice when teachers comment on that as though it’s a negative - and I used to get a lot of that. I’ve never written it on a child’s report as I always found it patronising.

Eldest daughter was like this it got a point after a few p and t meetings before they would start I'd say yes she's quiet , and most teachers would say and that's ok and there's no need for her to change

The Counsellor said to me it was like talking to a 2 year old (because I'd give one answer responses) so as you can imagine my self confidence didn't get any better. I was assessed for being on the autistic spectrum.

Do these 'counsellors' get paid by the number of boxes they tick?

Does his form teacher teach PE by any chance?! I'm an introvert and generally find people utterly exhausting, especially in large groups. (By which I mean more than about 6.) I've still managed to have an okay career and life and yes to the observing people when they haven't even noticed I'm there. Most of my relationships have been one to one, where people can't hide who they really are as easily.

I'd love a world where it isn't always the extroverts in charge of everything and calling the shots (just look at the cabinet to see how well that's playing out in the face of a major global disaster).

One of the aspects of COVID that has been very noticeable for me is that extroverts are having a much tougher time of it overall. I'm not saying introverts aren't suffering too, just that some of my nearest and dearest are coping okay on balance. They've learned new languages, adapted their job roles where they've managed to keep work, polished skills like drawing and writing and cooking. And they're pretty much all introverts.

OP this is just one person’s comment - you seem to be taking it extremely personally. Probably because your ‘quietness’ has been commented on by other people and you feel defensive.
At the same time it might be useful to ask the teacher what she means by quiet?
There’s no problem with being quietly confident and happy with your own lot. Socialising with your friends with whom you presumably have things in common.
However in business you need to build and maintain connections with all sorts. In my experience the most efficient people are those who know whom to contact to get the job done. And I’m a programmer - presumably one of the more introverted and head down professions!