Is being shy something that needs to be changed?

[Daydreamermummy]

I've just had my teenagers school report. Its all good. No complaints from subject teachers. His form tutor has only concentrated on him being quiet. Fair enough, he is quiet, so am I. I think she has pushed it too far by saying she is still hoping that she can change this. She said therefore she will be asking him more questions in PSCHE. My older children are all quiet, all hold down jobs etc. AIBU to think that you can't just change someone to not be shy and that it isn't always a negative thing?

I think being shy is only a problem if the shy person feels as though they are missing out (on experiences, opportunities, enjoying certain situations). I was a very shy child and am not anymore (no idea how I overcame it unfortunately), and I wish I had been less shy in the past. I do feel like it held me back in many ways. I do acknowledge not everyone feels that way about being shy though.

Being quiet/shy doesn’t automatically mean you’re not confident.

I’m naturally very quiet but if I have to do something like a presentation, or an interview, I’m absolutely fine! I’m also usually the first to challenge someone if they’re being unreasonable, from small things to racism.

I have a voice, I just don’t have to be loud to make myself heard when it counts.

Nothing wrong with being quiet. It does make it a bit tricky in class sometimes though. For example I teach languages and obviously speaking is an important, examinable, part of the subject. It's hard to give good marks for the oral element of it to a student who rarely speaks. It's also hard to tell how 'engaged' a very reticent student is sometimes. Written work isn't everything. If your ds has had no comments on this from other teachers it can't be much of a problem though.

I think she is wrong about this.

It's one thing being shy and unconfident, wanting to say something and not being able, having no confidence and not being able to make friends.

Its quite another to be quiet, and be happy letting others do the talking, and speaking when you feel like it.

If your son is happy and successful then why does she want to change him? There is a perception that loud / chatty = confident = generally better personality. It does help in business, if you look higher up management chains most of them will be more extrovert types. But that only matters if he wants to get high up in management.

She is wrong to somehow imply being quiet is a negative trait and she is wrong to think that asking a few questions can somehow reverse this!

I would be having words with that teacher. He can't help that he is shy, by intentionally asking him questions in the class just so he speaks is embarrassing. If any of this happens with my children I will be loosing it.

I've always been lead to believe that shyness beyond the age of twenty-one is just rudeness by another name.

@Vivenne

I would be having words with that teacher. He can't help that he is shy, by intentionally asking him questions in the class just so he speaks is embarrassing. If any of this happens with my children I will be loosing it.

I think that might be overreacting rather.

It doesn't sound like he's a child that can't contribute, more one who is not very willing to volunteer answers. It's entirely normal to direct the odd question to a child who is not otherwise actively participating, and I think you can trust most teachers to try and make sure that the question is one they're going to be able to answer.

@JocastaElastic

I've always been lead to believe that shyness beyond the age of twenty-one is just rudeness by another name.

I am nearly 41 and very shy and introverted. If I could help it, I would. It has had a detrimental impact on my life. But yeah, call me rude if you want.

One can choose to be quiet, and that's an absolutely valid choice; but being shy isn't a choice, and being shy can hold one back from enjoying life to the full.

Hi OP, I am another one who was, and still am "shy" (I'm 62 in case that is relevant). Does your teenager know that his teacher has said that, if so, does the thought fill him with dread, or even a slight hope that lt may help - he can feel both of course? Regardless of whether your child knows about this comment or not, I would (as politely as possible - I wouldn't be feeling polite) ask her what her qualifications are as a child psychologist, and how much experience she has. Unless she is a fully qualified child psychologist, who also has a child psychiatrist to discuss individual children with, in her team, I would be telling her no, she must do no such thing. I doubt that she is a fully qualified child psychiatrist, as they wouldn't normally just observe a child, and then decide that the child is "quiet", and all they need is bringing out of themselves in the way she describes.
If your son actually does want to feel more confident (I am not saying that he doesn't already, or that he shouldn't feel confident just because he is quiet, but if he doesn't), and/or wants to feel happier to ask more questions, read aloud to others, give presentations etc, then unless this teacher is qualified and has the time and resources to commit to his "therapy", then I think you should maybe consider him seeing an actual child psychologist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being quiet, but one of my adult children is quiet and shy, and goes bright red when they have to talk to a group at work, and it is hindering them from wanting to go after promotions as a promotion would mean being a team leader, and having to speak both to the people they would be leading in a group situation, and to higher management teams as well. Only you, (your child's other parent?), and your child should be discussing this. Your child's teacher was probably right to flag up a potential problem with your child, but personally I think that should have been done privately to you, not in their school report. lt should be your's, and your child's decision about whether quietness (and any possible reasons for it - it could well be just a trait your child has, and lt can be an endearing one too), is a characteristics that needs to be addressed.
I am sorry this is so long, unfortunately, I have problems trying to express myself more succinctly, and I do think that it is a very important topic. I wish you, and your obviously intelligent and lovely son all the best in the future.

Being slow approach or fast approach is an incredibly persistent trait in humans. Likely genetic and observable from close to birth to old age. If both weren't useful, evolutionarily, one would have died out.

The human race needs slow approach people to be cautious, think through actions, tend the fire and know where the water sources are. It also needs people who run over the next hill, make quick, impulsive decisions and try new things.

Neither is good or bad. And they aren't mutable.

@JocastaElastic

I've always been lead to believe that shyness beyond the age of twenty-one is just rudeness by another name.

That person was lying to you. Loud doesn’t mean confidence necessarily. I’m not sure why quiet is seen as a negative all the time.

My dad always said I was quietly confident.

Politely tell the teacher to go do one.

There's no benefit to being shy, so I can sort of see why a teacher might see it as their job to developed a greater comfort with speaking up.

Not sure that focusing questions on them in class is a good way to do it, though.

@BoomBoomsCousin what are the benefits of being loud? Because I’ve met loud people and they can be negatives too

“Loose lips sink ships”. There’s some people that are too loud discussing and wanting to know everyone’s business so bloody nosy it’s borderline bad manners (my ex colleague).

I have also met people who are loud and this is mistaken for confidence

Some “loud” people want to be involved in everything! I can assure you depending on the person being loud is not always a positive thing!

BoomBoomsCousin what are the benefits of being loud?
Unfortunately most employers base hiring decisions on whether they want you as a colleague. Being qualified and skilled takes second place. If you’re not sociable and chatty you don’t get hired. I speak from experience: I’m highly skilled but have frequently been turned down for jobs for nothing more than being quiet. If I’d known my personality was a deal breaker I wouldn’t have wasted time and money on university.

I’m actually going to disagree with the loud/chatty= better jobs- my family are very high performing, shy and well educated; I’m loud, talkative and yes I’m doing brilliantly in my sales job but I’m not doing as well in terms of money/ career progression.It’s not just how much you say? It’s what you say.

Teacher her. I don't think she should have written this on his report as obviously he is going to read it. There is a danger he would see this as a negative thing. It's fine for her to decide in her head to be conscious of encouraging his opinions in class but not past the stage of being uncomfortable. In class, as teachers, we are always aware of making sure quieter children get a voice. Some children due to their personality could take over a class so it's our job to maintain a balance. But we always need to be conscious of making a statement on a report that may stay in a students head and lower his confidence or define him. It's a fine line we are walking every time . In order for a quiet child to contribute more he needs to feel safe and believing a teacher has an agenda to change him will not foster that.

@ragged

I have mixed feelings, and I say this as someone who is very diffident.

I know people who threw hands up in air when their children were small, saying "They don't like busy places or loud noises" It turned into a life-limiting situation. They never taught their children resilience to be outside their comfort zone.

That's what I hear OP saying, that there's no skill to be gained by being able to be outgoing when it might be convenient or helpful to oneself. I think that is a skill worth acquiring.

I really agree with this. For all of us there is value to gradually and gently challenge our comfort zone. Very often with children nowadays people say "they are sensitive to this or that" or "don't like loud noises" etc. While I understand each child and adult have specific personalities, likes and dislikes, it's not a bad thing to imagine some change and growth too. It's the valuable idea of the "growth mindset" versus the "fixed mindset"

Having said that, there's nothing wrong per se about being introverted and quiet! But equally no characteristic we have should be seen as sacrosanct, this is how we are and will always be and there's no change possible

It might be useful to have a quick chat with the teacher OP just to clarify what they mean. You know your child best after all - a form tutor doesn't actually know them that well, as generally they only see them at form times for a few minutes a day.

Is your son actually shy, as you say (which may be worth exploring a little and helping him with), or is he an introvert (which is a word often used on here in the wrong context the minute 'shy' is brought up!). Being an introvert does not mean that you are shy (although you can be both). There are also shy extroverts (which sounds impossible, but it is bizarrely true!) I'm a classic introvert, but I am also a confident professional public speaker and not shy at all - I just prefer my own company and once I've finished my job retreat to my 'cave' ☺️

Shyness and anxieties over speaking in public can lead to a lifetime of misery though. It's crippling in business and can leave you very lonely in your personal life. It doesn't sound like this is what's going on here to me if your son is a confident gymnast and has friends outside of his tutor group, so I would just speak to this teacher and let her know that her concerns are unwarranted and that you would rather she didn't push him.

@JocastaElastic

I've always been lead to believe that shyness beyond the age of twenty-one is just rudeness by another name.

why so? I can't see the link between shyness and rudeness

There is a difference between being quiet and shy. Working with so many adults I have come across quiet people who will still join in a conversation and actually when they do talk I know it’s always going to be a good point.

But I have also come across shy adults who really struggle socially. My partner is naturally quiet but he isn’t shy it can take him a little while to warm up / observe as a typical introvert but he’s not nervous or timid around others.

I’m extroverted but can be quite shy due to anxiety at times. My sister is definitely quiet but I wouldn’t mess with her 😂

I don’t see being quiet as an issue providing they don’t mean shy. If you DC can stand up for themselves and hold a conversation when needed it’s a non issue.

This is something that I received a lot of comments on both whilst at school and in my professional life and it took me to my 30s to work on. I do feel I’ve missed out on experiences and opportunities as it was holding me back, and I often felt I was at odds with my real self. So I don’t think it’s something you should just accept is part of someone without trying to work on it.
As others have mentioned there is a difference between being shy, being an introvert and being quiet. These are subtle differences and it takes some take to figure out the differences and to determine what is the root of the issue for your child.
For me, for a long time I bundled them up together and so I thought I needed to be more of an extrovert when really I needed to address my shyness.
It’s totally fine to be quiet or an introvert, but I found my shyness was holding me back as I had difficulty speaking up, making small talk and felt socially awkward.

An introvert is something who feels energised from time alone, it doesn’t mean they don’t like or need to socialise.
I’ve always enjoyed time alone but I still wanted to go to the party (to use the Susan Cain analogy from Quiet- an excellent read and her website had tons of info too), yet when I got there I’d find it difficult to socialise.
Now I’ve worked on my shyness (and this is ongoing, sometimes it takes my DH to point out my shy behaviour in a situation, eg when I can’t bring myself to order something on the phone) I’m comfortable in my ‘quiet’ personality and being an introvert. I socialise more easily and enjoy my alone time afterwards when I ‘recharge’. Being quiet doesn’t mean I don’t speak up or that I don’t enjoy socialising, it is more just an aspect of my personality. For example, I moved teams in the past year. Previously I would have had feedback about needing to speak up more in meetings and to put myself out there, now I get feedback along the lines of being ‘quietly confident’, that I have informed opinions, etc as I can speak up when required now and I come across as comfortable in myself. To others I do think that I unintentionally came across as immature before.

Aside from Susan Cain’s ‘Quiet’ book, I also found looking at Meyers-Briggs’ personality test to be useful as it identifies four facets of your personality, one is whether you are introvert or extrovert and there is a sliding scale for each as well.

It's complicated. Should shyness be something that has to be changed? Definitely not, there is nothing wrong with having at as a personality trait. Shy people tend not to dominate conversations and are therefore more prone to be good listeners. They tend to be more loyal friends - perhaps don't have as many friends as others, but appreciate the ones they do.

In the real world though, shyness can be a handicap. The reliance on a smaller friendship group and difficulty in forming new relationships can leave the individual easily isolated. Employers don't mind quiet employees in many roles, provided they get on with the job, but you still need to be able to sell yourself in the interview in the first place.

My summary would be: shy people can live fulfilling lives, but it's harder for them to do so than it is for loudmouths.

@Daydreamermummy

This comment was from his tutor. None of his subject teachers wrote anything negative. They said he works well in a group etc. He is very academic so it isn't affecting his education.

As a university lecturer, I'm really glad that schools, are tackling this. There are so many students now who go on to university and don't get as much out of it as they should due to a completely undeveloped lack of confidence, which prevents them from participating fully in tutorials. It is a learned skill and most definitely can be improved, preferably before they reach university or the workplace.An inability to express yourself to others isn't something to be encouraged, and even if they don't go to university, it will likely hold them back in the workplace.

If all your children are quiet and shy, is it something you are instilling in them sub consciously?