Whilst Biden and Harris are busy doing their jobs, there's an Impeachment Hearing going on... (#125)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4145424-Moving-on-its-Biden-Harris-Administration-time-124?msgid=104553726#104553726

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I agree Roussette. That particular person is all over the coronavirus board. One can only assume that what people write is a fair indication of who they are.

@DHdweller

What an utter waste of time. Trump will be back in 2024

Unless he's died by then and in that case a Trump Jr will take over so we won't get shot of that family in a hurry.

I think we can make our own judgement - having watched the entire shenanigans play out on 6 January. (No need "not to ask" how I watched the whole thing - because I was interested, shocked and appalled )

I'm just surprised that more people didn't die given the way that the insurrectionists were incited and the extent to which they breached and defiled the Capitol The fact that more people didn't die and lawmakers weren't lynched as a direct consequence of Trump's words is due in large part to the bravery of the law enforcement officers and guys like Eugene Goodman.

Trump is like the worst of Mafia mobsters, getting other people to do his dirty work while keeping his hands "clean" yet retaining all the power I hope that they find a way to use the full force of RICO legislation to bring him down.

I believe Trump Derangement Syndrome is a real thing

Spot on. Those criticising Trump are temporarily out of their wits.

See also Covid Derangement Syndrome in which people believe that the pandemic is anything other than a boon to the human race which will strengthen it by eliminating all the snowflakes.

@HmmSureJan

Ps I won't be sticking around to argue about this because it's utterly pointless but I do think it's important to offer alternative viewpoints so that others see that there isn't only One Way To Think.

We’re so grateful for having this pointed out in such a gracious manner. Feel free to never return to the thread.

Did Travellingtilbury send up a klaxon call and only one turned up?

Let's look at your conviction of the steal. Trump lost 59+ cases brought to court, many decided by Judges that he had appointed himself. Are you saying they're all wrong? His back-to-back losses just highlight the depth of his failure to convince judges from all political parties at every level of the US judicial system to undo Biden's win. How do you explain that? Are Republican judges in on it too?

Not to mention brave Republican state officials, like Raffensperger in Georgia, who refused to submit to Trump's will and 'find' the necessary votes for him to win the State.

These are people who VOTED FOR TRUMP. Are we to believe that they were in on a conspiracy to prevent him being elected?? Madness.

@knittingaddict

Did Travellingtilbury send up a klaxon call and only one turned up?

Give it time, it's still early, especially across the pond.

It's funny how they turn up whenever the facts make them they feel particularly threatened or vulnerable 🐿

It's almost as if they need to justify themselves and have to rewrite history to do so

Not to mention brave Republican state officials, like Raffensperger in Georgia, who refused to submit to Trump's will and 'find' the necessary votes for him to win the State

Yes. That was particularly shocking and almost enough to impeach on it's own in my book. A recorded call, no arguing with what he said. No justification.

'Find me 10,780 votes'

Morning.

No, not a waste of your time Rousette. It's worth having a reasoned response unpicking the claims.

It's when the disproved claims and goading start to take over the thread, and bad faith posters attempt to drive it in circles by alternately wilfully misunderstanding, and name-calling and claiming to be brave martyrs, that it becomes a problem. They crowd out everything except what they dictate gets discussed.

@Roussette
That HuffPost article was quite a read. Where we are is summed up near the end when Daniel’s Qanon mum agrees she feels the same about him and family who he says feel estranged to her because of her embrace of this other reality.

maggie I found it heartbreaking, really I did. Those poor kids.

I remember 4 or 5 years ago calling what was going on with Trump a cult. Claig (now infamous) went crazy in disagreement with that. But when you read that article about the rabbit hole these people have gone down, I think I was right.

No different to thinking Trump had won when he hadn't.

Thanks Perking yes and I just couldn't help but answer the nonsense

@Roussette
But may there be a day of reckoning for those who don’t believe but cynically feed the lies.

Heather Cox Richardson’s view on the acquittal

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2602529546557762&id=241446929332714&tn=%2As%2As-R

Someone on a different thread posted some excellent links about dealing with friends who have fallen down a rabbit hole.

How To Talk With—And Maybe Help—Someone Who Believes In QAnon And Other Conspiracy Theories
www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/08/26/how-to-talk-with-and-maybe-help-someone-who-believes-in-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories/?sh=5d3b9fd6412d

How to pull a friend out of the conspiracy theory rabbit hole
www.salon.com/2018/09/16/how-to-pull-a-friend-out-of-the-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole/

Analysis here
fivethirtyeight.com/features/with-trumps-acquittal-the-fragility-of-americas-democracy-is-even-more-clear/

It has been suggested that humans could be affected by an organism that likes a warmer planet, and is simply driving us all to provide it for them.

Would explain a lot.

More:
The QAnon Media Ecosystem Is Not Helping People to Exit
hassan-4414.medium.com/the-qanon-media-ecosystem-is-not-helping-people-to-exit-1045e0c8c8ee

I thought the Salon article made a particularly good point:
www.salon.com/2018/09/16/how-to-pull-a-friend-out-of-the-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole/

"Conspiracies are very real, of course. The fact that powerful people make secret plans at the expense of the general public should come as no surprise to anyone. Nixon conspired to cover up Watergate. The CIA staged “false flag” operations in 1953 to bring down the Iranian government. Powerful men in the Reagan administration conspired to illegally trade arms to Iran to finance the Nicaraguan Contras. Enron conspired to shut down power stations to raise the price of electricity.
[...]
"Nobody is denying that conspiracies happen. These are well documented and undisputed facts. Conspiracies very clearly have happened, and they will continue to happen. Nobody is asking you to trust that the people in power always have your best interests at heart, because they clearly do not. Nobody is asking you to blindly trust the government, or big pharma, or any large entity with a gross amount of power, wealth and influence. A key aspect of a well-functioning democracy is that the government should be subject to scrutiny.

"Conspiracies are real, but with every one of these very real conspiracies and plausible potential conspiracy there are a slew of false conspiracy theories."

I think my uppermost feeling is, well, resignation. Of course there's anger and frustration, too, but mostly just resignation. I knew he was going to be acquitted and he was. I believe the House Managers did the best possible job in an impossible situation and I believe that their decision not to call witnesses was a 'long term' decision for the good of the Country. That page has now been turned. We can only wait hopefully for the criminal cases to be built and the civil financial cases to proceed. And now Congress' complete attention can be turned to Biden's agenda to get the country back on its feet.

As far as the future of the GOP, they've set their course and tied the tiller. They are now, officially, the party of Trump and that's just the way he wants it, he wants the power of the 'known brand'. It will be the decision of those with a conscience to choose their next move. They don't have the numbers to turn the tide so their only choice will be to leave the party and either become Democrats or Independents. If they choose to stay knowing the truth, then they are cowards and turncoats.

Thanks to all (again) who posted (especially after the verdict) for their reasoned and intelligent posts. I think you kept me sane over the last 12 or so hours. I had to step away from all media yesterday afternoon but being able to come here this morning has been wonderful. To read such insightful posts and able defenses lifted my spirits.

For our little 'visitors' and their 'pearls of wisdom', y'all can just fuck right off. The non-US long time posters on this thread have taken the time to get to know the US posters (domestic and expat) and ask intelligent and insightful questions about our political system and our Country's regions and their differences.

Lurking about on conspiracy boards or thinking that protesting systemic racism & inequality (BLM/Antifa) is in ANY WAY equivalent to marching for Trump's vision of America (a white supremacist, anti-woman, plutocratic 'monarchy') then you are either sadly deluded or certifiably insane. And you know NOTHING about my Country.

The main clue that a conspiracy theory is starting to leave the realms of reality is the number of twiddles you start to need when people point out inconsistencies. Eventually leading to the catch-all They're all in on it

This is why flat-earth, the Apollo landings, and JFK plots are bollocks. Same for Bill Gates and microchip vaccines.

www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/joy-reid-if-republicans-can-t-stand-up-to-a-violent-mob-they-should-quit-101003333668