Whilst Biden and Harris are busy doing their jobs, there's an Impeachment Hearing going on... (#125)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4145424-Moving-on-its-Biden-Harris-Administration-time-124?msgid=104553726#104553726

Speaker Pelosi: "What we saw in that Senate today was a cowardly group of Republicans who apparently have no options, because they were afraid to defend their job, respect the institution in which they serve."

@Lweji

Same as you. Don't know what to make of it.

BTW, who is the party leader now?

Ronna McDaniel is the GOP Chairperson ('leader of the party')

McConnell is the Senate Minority Leader
McCarthy is the House Minority Leader.

@Flumpypie

Please excuse me if I sound thick but why did the GOP want him acquitted? Surely if Trump can hold office and starts a new political party it would split the republican vote, handing it to the Dems , or are they hoping he comes back to the party.

You're bright enough to have worked that out.

But a lot of the Repugs aren't. Or they're planning that, whichever way the split happens, they end up in the party with Trump. And since they are unscrupulous, lying and ruthless, they hope Trump will bring them to power (not fussy how).

Pelosi!

Pelosi condemns the possibility of censuring Trump in the Senate: "Oh, these cowardly senators who couldn’t face up to what the president did and what was at stake for our country are now going to have a chance to give a little slap on the wrist?"

People constantly remark how politically savvy Mitch is and I believe them. If the DoJ go after Trump many will charge that the Dems are being divisive and this may work against them in 2022 which is of course what Mitch really wants.

@maggiethecat

People constantly remark how politically savvy Mitch is and I believe them. If the DoJ go after Trump many will charge that the Dems are being divisive and this may work against them in 2022 which is of course what Mitch really wants.

I was so obsessed with Mitch NOT wanting the GOP. to be the ones to dump Trump, that I missed that criminal charges from DOJ will be labelled as nasty Democrats nailing Trump so solving the Trump problem for the GOP yet keeping their hands clean.

Nobody will have any faith in the US justice or political systems from this day forward, in the USA or outside it. Absolute farce. I'm hoping that criminal charges will be brought against Trump immediately. Otherwise what's the point of anyone obeying their laws?. Absolutely shameful.

Anyone else incredibly depressed? And yet not surprised?

So that is what democracy looks like. I've often wondered!!

I think the impeachment managers did a brilliant job of proving Trump's criminality and the recordings and records will prevail for all time.

In the meantime hopefully ordinary, decent Americans will reject Trump should he ever try to run again.

The Dems shouldn't play into the hands of the Reps, let them fight it out themselves the fate of that despicable man.

Burgess Everett @BurgessEv

Murkowski tells me she doesn't care about political retribution: “If I can't say what I believe that our president should stand for, then why should I ask Alaskans to stand with me?”

She's the only senator who convicted Trump to face voters next year

The whole thing was like a pantomime. Everyone knew it was a foregone conclusion before it even started but they went through all the performative shock and anger anyway. What a bizarre political system it is. The self-delusion required to claim to be defenders of democracy while the judiciary are political appointees and this nonsense is taken seriously is risible.

Anyone else incredibly depressed? And yet not surprised?

yep

@Roussette

Why is this man banging on about him saying 'peacefully and patriotically' when he only said that HOURS after the rioters were inside the Capitol.

How dare he say 'read along with me' when 15 Republicans couldn't even be bothered to attend the hearing yesterday when I/Managers were talking

This clip now... surely it's a home goal?

(don't jump on me, I'm a left-wing Brit but I do find all this fascinating).

I watched 5 hours of the Rally on 6th Jan (don't ask) and felt the media totally misrepresented what was said before.

Trump's own speech was late and over an hour long (he mostly went through the evidence). But he did talking about marching bravely and peacefully, this is why it was so shocking that is was being reported that he didn't. We all watched it. I've tried to transcribe the relevant 3 mins from the hour+ speech as best I can:

“After this - and I’ll be there with you - we’re gonna walk down, we’re gonna walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congress men and women - and we’re probably not going to be cheering much for some of them - because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only can the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capital building. To peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

For anyone who is interested the relevant part is about 4 mins into this video:

sorry if I'm not welcome on here however I just wanted to point out that the rally speech was positive and peaceful imo and has been misrepresented. I'm completely unbiased - in fact I spent 4 years joining in with the all the Trump jokes and scorn.

ps from speaking to American friends, they think he wanted to split the party and weed out any 'traitors'. I don't know much more than that but I find it fascinating - all sides.

@TravellingTilbury
Do you really believe, after months of riling the base up about a stolen election, that he believed and wanted his supporters to believe that their mere presence at the Capital was going to effect an overturn of the election result? And that Pence, based on the strength of numbers of patriots who marched in support of the president and standing peacefully outside the Capital, was going to do their will?

You're more than welcome here but I'm off to bed.

I believe that many of the Trump supporters truly do believe the election was stolen - as do I (have surprised myself) - based on watching evidence being given etc and various issues. I think Trump supporters felt resigned that the votes weren't going to go their way on 6th Jan and were actually hoping for some sort of big reveal on the part of Trump. Pence is interesting, because some were wondering which way he was going to go but ultimately not surprised. I can't remember the wording exactly but the end of Trump's speech was about marching to encourage and support the voting that was going on that afternoon. Of course many Trump fans believe that he suspected that there would be a set up and that was why he deliberately delayed his own speech. The walk from the Ellipse took a while (slow and busy - the broadcast followed the crowds round) and so the awful action was suddenly happening before the main Trump fans had barely left the Ellipse. It was odd for me watching this really happy Rally live stream (honestly, it's bonkers but the speeches during the day were really happy and uplifting, I know I sound deranged) and yet the BBC on the other side of the room was breaking news about the forced entry etc - I was watching with my son and we both commented that, despite the MAGA hats etc, the crowd forcing in looked totally different - the livestream was still interviewing while walking and it was all 'Yes Ma'am, Yes, sir' and they were horrified when they heard what was happening at the Capital Building.
It was like a different reality. I'm not writing this to stir or frustrate, but to me, it was obvious that the election as stolen and I thought everyone thought that, even hard core Dem supporters. So it was interesting reading this thread (a few pages) and I feel there is a huge alternate reality going on for both sides. It's very odd but I think I can see both sides now.

@TravellingTilbury - I’ve been more of a lurker on these threads, so you won’t find many of my posts on here.

I find it interesting that you’ve chosen THIS moment to post your views. Over 5 weeks after what happened. Trump ramped things up for months before the election, continued to do so after the election and yet you focus on one small sentence containing the words peaceful and patriotic.

Let’s assume that is what he meant. Please can you then give your views as to why he still tweeted about Pence, why he did nothing to send reinforcements and why he released a video statement telling the rioters that they were loved and very special.

And I don’t think the “I used to think x but now can see y is true” will cut any mustard on here. You’re not being clever with that type of comment, you’re being very transparent.

For me, even if I thought (which I don’t) that none of his conduct in the weeks/months leading up to this was his fault - his conduct/actions WHILST the riots were happening were a complete failure of his oath/position/etc.

Sorry Furries, I haven't spent much time on this thread before. I'm genuine [shrug] Because of the ongoing saga today (I hadn't yet seen the final result) I read through this thread backwards because naively I suppose I was expecting to see something eg talking about the the bits that were cut out of the 6th Jan speech and so I wasn't going to post anything - it just happened that a comment caught my eye that seemed genuinely disbelieving at the 'peacefully protesting' bit whereas my reality was different. I just wanted to share a different view. Sorry.

Why did I focus on that bit? I'd watched 5 hours of the Rally and it was weirdly uplifting and joyous - until they cut to the BBC breaking news of protestors storming. I can only assume that actual Trump fans at the Rally felt the same disbelief. Because I still can't reconcile the fact that all the media distorted what happened with the consequence that there are two very different realities. It's crazy.

Naively (and because I like to try and understand opposing views - how they came about etc) I thought sharing the video would explain the point better than I could've done. And, honestly, I felt compelled to say that I saw things differently to what the media etc portrayed. It's not even about sticking up for Trump, it's about fairness and the lying media/corruption.
Sorry, I don't know what you mean about me trying to be clever - I'm not trying. And clearly not that clever!
Re: afterwards, as far as I remember, Trump tweeted for the protestors to go home peacefully but it was quickly deleted from the news. I was still in shock tbh. I won't post again on here.

Don’t apologise, there is nothing wrong with expressing/querying your view.

I think my query with it is “why” have you posted now, after the result. If you spent that much time watching such a lovely rally. Am not trying to be combative, but what are your views re Trump’s non-actions once the riot was underway - still tweeting re Pence (his family were there too). Not calling in reinforcements. Telling them they were loved and special.

Surely, as a decent human being, you would be viewing what was unfolding and try to diffuse it. Trump didn’t.

Politics is really bloody hard, and I always aim to not impose my views on friends and family.

I’d suggest finding the result, and the following statements from the majority and minority leaders of the senate online. The result vs statements after are really quite telling.

I'm a left-wing Brit

Said no British person who votes for a left-wing party ever.

@SaskiaRembrandt exactly!

How the hell was that rally peaceful? Ah, l forget it only was peaceful from the Fox News viewpoint.....yea right.

You're a left wing Brit? Really? If that's what you think you are then it helps me understand how so many Trump supporters can hold diametrically opposed beliefs in one brain whilst constantly demanding others do the same. Not recommended.

based on watching evidence being given etc and various issues

Uh huh. Strange all the cases collapsed in court

My friend is a lovely, kind, morally left person. She still believes in QAnon and is anti vaccine. She's been totally hoodwinked.

I watched a lot of the rally on TV too. It wasn't peaceful and joyous it was noisy and aggressive and Trump whipping people up to be angry about their supposed grievance.
Once they had started storming the capital (yes they were MAGA people, they were wearing the hats and waving the flags, let's not pretend it was some other element and that the lovely joyous MAGA people were just standing around looking shocked) he told them he loved them.
You may be "left wing" but if you think the election was stolen you're obviously deep into conspiracy theories too.