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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why religion is declining in Britain

999 replies

Jackieweaver2024 · 09/02/2021 21:45

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

OP posts:
Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:34

Do you blame science for Hiroshima?

Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:36

And for those who say that Christianity is responsible for war and deaths - fascism and communism - both of which were atheist ideologies - murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century alone.

BrumBoo · 15/02/2021 14:38

Atheists can never say what was in situ before the 'Big Bang.

Yes we can! It's all part of the same observable big bang theory you refuse to acknowledge....

Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:40

And I bet half of you go around saying 'Oh God' or 'Jesus Christ'!

AnitaB888 · 15/02/2021 14:40

@Baws
"Again there is no evidence that ghosts exist either."

It depends what you mean by 'ghosts' but in any case some would disagree.

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/are-ghosts-real

www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/ghosts

I know many nurses and an undertaker who claim to have seen them, surely they can't be all 'loopy'?

LastTrainEast · 15/02/2021 14:41

@Marmunia11975

Yes, I can't help but snigger at the ghostly experiences of Mumsnetters and the trips to fortune tellers to guide them on whether they should marry Steve or Mike and how many babies they should have.

But when God is mentioned, all hell breaks loose (sorry for pun number two).

My proof is from an experience, well actually several, as well as power of prayer which I've seen in my life.

Any atheists' arguments are purely based on grandiose and unsubstantiated claims.

Also, atheists are showing a non-belief in acknowledging something they don't actually believe in. And what caused good and bad in the first place?

Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

The universe has a cause.

Rational people don't believe in either. You should point that out to them.

"what caused good and bad in the first place?" people invented morals and improved on them over the centuries. We're still doing it.

However, if you're claiming your god invented morals there's a problem since yours is a mass murderer of children and those are not the morals anyone here wants surely?

BrumBoo · 15/02/2021 14:42

@Marmunia11975

And for those who say that Christianity is responsible for war and deaths - fascism and communism - both of which were atheist ideologies - murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century alone.
It doesn't matter what name you give it, under religion, fasicm, general fear through control - it's people who are responsible. People invent gods to hide behind, people do it out of our own volition, people are responsible however your dress it up. Because we're just animals at the end of the day, constantly fighting against our primal nature to fight each other. It's only due to a blip in the matrix that we've developed enough self awareness to question 'why'. I'm sure we're not the first or last creatures in the universe to do so but doesn't make us 'specially created' by a long shot.
Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:42

In order to reject a god, you must have a concept of a god, so why call yourselves atheists?

BrumBoo · 15/02/2021 14:47

@Marmunia11975

In order to reject a god, you must have a concept of a god, so why call yourselves atheists?
Because we have read stories of your gods and deemed them to be just that - stories. A god can be invented, that doesn't make one truth.

A concept is not reality - did you read Harry Potter and start believing Hogwarts must be a real place? It has been created now, part of our imagination, how do we know the wizarding world isn't a part of a greater truth?

Baws · 15/02/2021 14:48

@AnitaB888

Yes there are clearly things that are unexplained but I think the view that they are some kind of imprint from the past is more credible than grumpy old Aunt Agnes who has decided to come back from the dead to scare the shit out of everyone. Even if ghosts do exist this does not prove the existence of a god. I’m open minded to things that are unexplained but the evidence that there is no mythical being who created the world is pretty clear cut as far as I can see.

Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:51

Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist. So far, I have had no evidence.

lazylinguist · 15/02/2021 14:53

In order to reject a god, you must have a concept of a god, so why call yourselves atheists?

Just popping back in to point out that this makes literally no sense. I don't reject god - he doesn't exist. I am aware of the concept of unicorns. Doesn't make them any more real. Being aware of the concept involved in somebody else's delusion doesn't mean you share it.

I suppose you could argue that giving oneself a label defined by what one doesn't believe is a bit odd. But it's not really, because the need for that label arose at a time when believers were in the majority. The default was a belief in god, so a word was needed to describe those who didn't.

Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 14:55

Playing devil's advocate here (excuse Pun Three)

Does science answer everything? No

Why do atheists care if people worship God? Dunno

How do you know that God doesn’t exist? I don't

Parker231 · 15/02/2021 14:56

I can’t reject God as he doesn’t exist.

lazylinguist · 15/02/2021 15:00

Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist. So far, I have had no evidence.

Non-existence (even of unicorns) is inherently unprovable. That's not something specific to religion - it's a recognised fact. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact that I see no evidence of there being a god cannot prove there isn't one. It is possible to prove existence though - please feel free to do so.

BrumBoo · 15/02/2021 15:10

Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist. So far, I have had no evidence.

Of course you don't genius, you cannot prove something doesn't exist. I have zero evidence that unicorns exist outside of stories, therefore it's pretty conclusive that they do not exist. It is a deduction from the fact that there is no tangible evidence to prove your point, and no one has ever been able to prove there is a god beyond 'well it's just what I feel to be true from personal experience '. If it cannot be measured and/or observed, then it simply doesn't have value.

Does science answer everything? No but it continues to question and research rather than just accept that it's beyond human control or understanding. They usually find answers as well.

Why do atheists care if people worship God? They don't. They care when other people's un-provable beliefs are expected to be a greater part of society, such as in schools where it doesn't belong. When religious people insist that their religion should have a say outside of their place of worship, then they are opening themselves up to criticism.

How do you know that God doesn’t exist? As previously explained, I know as much as I know other stories I have read are simply stories written by people. Can I prove it indisputably? No, but I can make a much stronger case against there being a 'god' watching over us all (especially in terms of how the religious believe 'he' does) than any religious person has ever made in favour of their beliefs.

AnitaB888 · 15/02/2021 15:10

@Baws
'Yes there are clearly things that are unexplained but I think the view that they are some kind of imprint from the past is more credible than grumpy old Aunt Agnes who has decided to come back from the dead to scare the shit out of everyone.'

I agree in part.
The imprints you mention, are maybe 'time-slips' from another age. They appear the same to everyone, do the same things and operate in the same area(s). Interestingly none have been recorded of anything prior to Roman times.
These 'apparitions' do not engage with the viewer and are images of real people who were once alive.

The ones that concern me are those 'ghosts' who have never been human and who exist with the sole purpose of tormenting the living.

Fortunately I have never encountered any of the latter.

To accept 'ghosts' as imprints from another time gives credence to the idea that movement is possible between dimensions.

So for non-Christians who believe the above, maybe the ideas of Hell, Resurrection, Assumption aren't such a big stretch?

JackieWeaversZoomAc · 15/02/2021 15:12

Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist
Can you prove she does exist?

lazylinguist · 15/02/2021 15:16

Why do atheists care if people worship God?

  1. Because religion has shaped human society and still does 2) Because religion is still part of our government and institutions 3) Because many atheists may also have had negative personal experience of religion 4) Because religion is a fascinating subject because of what it tells us about history and human beings 5) Because people care very much about the atrocities that have been and continue to be committed in the name of religion. I've never met an atheist who objected to people believing in god.

I could happily debate about the existence of god all day, but I would certainly defend the right of the individual to worship whichever deity they find most pleasing. Atheists generally object to the institutional powers and behaviours of organised religions, not the beliefs of individuals.

Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 15/02/2021 16:09

@Marmunia11975

So you're contradicting my experience by simply saying.....

I don’t think so!

What a great argument with supporting evidence.

Hold the front page! @marmunia11975 off of Mumsnet has solved the centuries-old question of whether god exists! He does because she says he does and anybody that disagrees it asks for proof is wrong. I believe you can expect a phone call from the queen any time now, marmunia
Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 16:26

I have proof that God exists because of several personal experiences. I have PROOF HE/SHE EXISTS. You don't have proof he doesn't exist.

Marmunia11975 · 15/02/2021 16:28

Jackie, you might want to read through your own thread.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 15/02/2021 16:31

@Marmunia11975

I have proof that God exists because of several personal experiences. I have PROOF HE/SHE EXISTS. You don't have proof he doesn't exist.
Capitalise what you like

You dont have evidence

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 15/02/2021 16:31

I agree with the jackie bit though

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