To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

"Ah sure, gods have only existed for as long as people have been able to write stories about them"
I don't get this srcasm ^
I thought you didn't believe in a god/gods ??

'Isn't that implicit?' No

You clearly haven't understood the text I linked to then.

'You do come across as rather... parochial. Do you not want others to hear the good news by any available means?'

How does that work in a wedding service when neither are believers?

Do you understand the nature of outreach and welcome?

@CathyorClaire

"Do you understand the nature of outreach and welcome?"

Not in your context, please explain.

[quote AnitaB888]@Besiegedbykillersquirrels

Still here? I thought you'd gone?

"It's not a belief in a misogynistic, hypocritical, greedy institution which facilitates and covers up horrific abuses of women and children and tells gay people they'll go to hell."

What religion is that? ^[/quote]
Christianity darling.

Because science.

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

'Christianity darling.'

You said I was a waste of time to engage with, yet you are still here, strange?

"misogynistic, hypocritical, greedy institution which facilitates and covers up horrific abuses of women and children and tells gay people they'll go to hell."

That could apply to other religions as well, why single out Christianity?

Gosh it really is like talking to mince. Just because other religions do it too it doesn't make it ok for Christians to do it. That just means there are more people in the world doing it in the name of god.

Agreeing with someone's post showing their exasperation with engaging with somebody as willfully ignorant as you doesn't mean I can't engage. You've mentioned this a few times now, possibly trying to embarrass me, but I'm afraid if hasn't had the desired effect, sorry.

That could apply to other religions as well, why single out Christianity?

We're talking about religion in this country, so Christianity will be the main one under scrutiny.

You seemed determined we have a go at Islam, @AnitaB888. Honestly, all Abrahamic religions are interchangeable, all water from the same well. All of them misogynistic, homophobic, racist, abusive etc. Throwing out Islam as a 'whattaboutry' is just trying to get others to see the splint in their religious eye whilst denying the plank in your own .

Not in your context, please explain

Sigh.

The church follows a programme of non-judgemental welcome to all comers in varied contexts as part of its evangelical mission and has done for years.

Were you too busy guarding the portals against the faithless to have noticed?

[quote AnitaB888]@callistography,

You say 'I have been lobbying against church schools for years. '

Does that include all faith-based schools? and

'Religious involvement harms secular learning and allowed time for secular learning. Time should not be taken out of the schools for things like the Eucharist. This should be done in family time, at a weekend.'

You are misinformed.
In C of E schools The Eucharist is usually celebrated before school starts and at lunch time. Attendance is not compulsory.

I cannot comment on pastoral care in other Faith Schools such as Islamic, or Jewish.

Does your campaign to get religion banned from schools and having secularism pushed upon children, against their parents wishes include them as well?[/quote]
Yea. It includes all faith-based schools.

Schools should be about education and not about religion.

If parents wish to indoctrinate their children that should be done in their own time and not during non-secular learning hours.

I have seen many examples where children have parts of their learning time affected by the Eucharist/confirmation class visits to church/'special' elongated services etc. And during these times, non Christian children were given holding activities of no educational worth in a room at school. I have written reports that fed into other data where the schools in question ended up in special measures over this religious bias and misuse of learning time.

My favourite has to be the time I had a conversation with a Headteacher of a VA church school regarding the highly selective Religious Education the children received. It was shocking just how streamlined it was in order to avoid anything that potentially disagreed with the religious bias of the schools. Children were missing out on learning about whole religions, like Sikhism or Hinduism.

When I questioned at what point they taught the children that Jesus was actually a Jew and pretty damn likely not white, he spluttered and said 'But he was Christian'

Oh dear....

I respect people following their own faiths but it should form no part of the governance and running of schools.

@BrumBoo

That could apply to other religions as well, why single out Christianity?

We're talking about religion in this country, so Christianity will be the main one under scrutiny.

You seemed determined we have a go at Islam, @AnitaB888. Honestly, all Abrahamic religions are interchangeable, all water from the same well. All of them misogynistic, homophobic, racist, abusive etc. Throwing out Islam as a 'whattaboutry' is just trying to get others to see the splint in their religious eye whilst denying the plank in your own .

And no one has suggested that if I didn't want to send my child to an Islamic school then I shouldn't have chosen to live in rural England.

And the Queen is not head of the British Council of Muslims or equivalent, last time I checked, nor is British Islam bound up with the workings of government -- no senior imams automatically sit in the House of Lords, and nor does the PM and the sovereign have any involvement in the process of their choosing. Nor is the senior imam automatically given a life peerage after he retires, as is the Archbishop of Canterbury.

@AnitaB888

Now that would be difficult as Christianity predates Islam by about 600 years, so it would be reasonable to assume that prior to that Iblis didn't exist?

It depends. If you are of faith then no, that's a very unreasonable assumption. I'd assume those of faith believe their God has always been, even before humans could put it into words.

Hinduism predates Christianity by 2000+ years. Does that mean it's reasonable to assume that prior to that Christian God didn't exist? If so that would surely mean everything about Christian God creating the universe, the world and humankind is demonstrably false, which would have huge knock on implications for those of the Christian faith.

For non-believers it's a very reasonable assumption to make. It's the same as saying prior to 1997 Harry Potter didn't exist (other than in the mind of JK rowling) which is true.

[quote AnitaB888]@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

'Christianity darling.'

You said I was a waste of time to engage with, yet you are still here, strange?

"misogynistic, hypocritical, greedy institution which facilitates and covers up horrific abuses of women and children and tells gay people they'll go to hell."

That could apply to other religions as well, why single out Christianity?[/quote]
Because in the UK its the Christians who are the Lords spiritual.

The unelected members of the house of lords who have the position by being Christian bishops.

In the UK Christianity needs to be singled out as it has actual legal power here.

How many of you go to fortune tellers?

@Marmunia11975

How many of you go to fortune tellers?

What does that have to do with anything? We all know it's the same made up nonsense as any other belief, but nice attempt at sidelining!

I genuinely want to know of experiences.

@Marmunia11975

How many of you go to fortune tellers?

Well that's straight out of left field

But since you ask no, I don't. Religion isn't the only woo I don't subscribe to.

If you consider yourself a 'good' person then that goodness extends from God. Nowhere else.

I can't prove to you at this moment that God exists, but if you were with me when I experienced it, that would have been my proof.

If you consider yourself a 'good' person then that goodness extends from God. Nowhere else.

No.
Altruism exists in many other species, not just Homo Sapein.
Elephants are kind to each other, wolves care for the sick and elderly amongst them, " goodness" is not an invention of the church.
Altruism benefits groups and individuals.

There is something quite twisted in thinking humans would eat each other if it were not for some god telling them how to behave.

I don;t need a rule book to tell me not to kill people.

I can't prove to you at this moment that God exists, but if you were with me when I experienced it, that would have been my proof.

Which God though? Christian God, Brahma, Jewish God, Allah, Amun, Imra, Odin, Zeus, Mukuru, or one of the other 100+ creator Gods? (I'm assuming we're talking about a creator God here.)

How did you know it was proof of a God? Did they specifically say "I am God, of the X faith" or did you just interpurt it to be the God of the faith you happen to be familiar with?

@sapho47

Not living up to your name eh?

"Because in the UK its the Christians who are the Lords spiritual."

Agreed

The unelected members of the house of lords who have the position by being Christian bishops.

Agreed in part - they are actually Lord Bishop as opposed to Suffragan Bishops, but don't let facts get in the way of your argument

'In the UK Christianity needs to be singled out as it has actual legal power here.'

Errr no.
There are also Lords Legal and Lords Temporal so Christian Bishops are in the minority.

In fact there are 800 members of the House of Lords of which 26 are Bishops.

So to say that 'Christianity has the power there' is arrant nonsense.

@pluas
"And the Queen is not head of the British Council of Muslims or equivalent, last time I checked, nor is British Islam bound up with the workings of government -- no senior imams automatically sit in the House of Lords, and nor does the PM and the sovereign have any involvement in the process of their choosing. Nor is the senior imam automatically given a life peerage after he retires, as is the Archbishop of Canterbury"

Not arguing with you.

Why is this ^ a problem to you personally?

@Marmunia11975
There is a thread somewhere on Mumsnet where posters recounts their experiences with 'ghosts'.
It seems some people are happy to believe in 'things that go bump in the night' but when anyone mentions religion (especially Christianity) they have a mental meltdown

@Buccanarab

"Now that would be difficult as Christianity predates Islam by about 600 years, so it would be reasonable to assume that prior to that Iblis didn't exist?

It depends. If you are of faith then no, that's a very unreasonable assumption. I'd assume those of faith believe their God has always been, even before humans could put it into words."

I wasn't talking about 'god' I was talking about Iblis.