To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Religions should absolutely be taught in schools, after all, they are the cause of most of the man-made worst atrocities in the world. I studied religions in university. But partaking in religious practices or teaching the curriculum through religion should not be forced upon children who are not of a faith, or of a different faith, just because they have no option of going to a secular school. I take it you'd be happy for your children to go a Muslim, Sikh or Jewish school then?

Christians: atheists shouldn't celebrate Christmas! That's our thing! Also stop using churches for 'nice' ceremonies such as baptisms and weddings when you don't believe. So offensive!

Also Christians: how dare you say that we should keep religion out of state schools! Our religious children have a right to learn about it, even though school are a place for facts not stories. Of course it's not hypocritical to have church AND church-run schools that can pick and chose their pupils based on faith......

All state religious schools should be banned. Absolutely. Religion has zero place in school, bar a fair, equal and historical/philosophical discussion about them outside of worship. RE should be replaced by a sociology-based subject. People are entitled to their faith, in the appropriate religious setting - that's not school.

'How on earth is it 'discrimination' for schools to be inclusive and secular?'

it discriminates against those parents who want to send their DC to a faith school

'You really are making a bit of a tit of yourself. '

Insults only weaken your already invalid argument. Church/faith schools are not 'exclusive

'Why can't there be one church school in the locality for those who choose to send their children to one and the rest be inclusive?'

That's a question for the Local Authority/Dept of Education

' if it was up to me I'd ban religious practice in schools.'

So now you want to promote Islamophobia, Anti-semitism and stifle parents freedom of choice?! Wow!

Let's face facts.
In rural areas often the only Primary school you'll get is a C of E one. If you don't like that then don't live in a village.
It bugs me that people choose country life for all its advantages but then moan they can't get the school they want/have a Tescos/have to pay high prices at the village shop etc.etc.

@Brumbroo

'All state religious schools should be banned.'

Another Flying Monkey from the National Secular Society hijacking this thread to serve their own agenda

[quote AnitaB888]@Brumbroo

'All state religious schools should be banned.'

Another Flying Monkey from the National Secular Society hijacking this thread to serve their own agenda [/quote]
It shows a misunderstanding - these are not state schools being permitted to have religious character (except a few, mainly non Christian, created in the Blair years or under the free school programme)

They are religious schools which predate the founding of state education, remain in church ownership, but are currently operating in cooperation with the state system.

The state could nationalise those schools, but would have to,buy them out at fair market price. This wasn't attempted at the founding of the state system, or during any of the times since them when we as a nation thought we were rich. I don't think this is a remotely sensible time to make a spending commitment of thus magnitude

In rural areas often the only Primary school you'll get is a C of E one. If you don't like that then don't live in a village.
It bugs me that people choose country life for all its advantages but then moan they can't get the school they want/have a Tescos/have to pay high prices at the village shop etc.etc.

What a stupid, ignorant remark, which makes assumptions on many levels. It's almost as if you think that the only people who live in the countryside or in villages are people who have moved out of the city seeking a cosy lifestyle. Plenty of people are born and bred in villages and in rural areas. Are you saying they should move elsewhere soley because their village school is a church school, if they don't believe in god?! And that people should make their decision about relocating solely on that basis? If it weren't for incomes to the area, more small village primary schools would close down for lack of numbers.

And why on earth are you bringing Tesco and village shops into this? No area is perfect. Getting angry with people for deciding where to live based on the majority of things being advantages, but accepting a couple of inconveniences or downsides is what literally everyone does. Or have you found some haven of perfection to live in, @AnitaB888?!

@AnitaB888 I've been on this thread a while, hardly a flying monkey. Religion as a belief has zero place in schools. You cannot demand respect for your religion and demand it's a prevalent part of society/education at the same time.

The time and place for faith is in places of appropriate worship, not schools, not for a random sermon on the streets or anywhere else that religion demands the attention of anyone who may not be a believer. Belief and fact absolutely need to be separated, it has never come to any good mixing the two - especially in educational settings.

I think it’s rather hypocritical to have church weddings, baptism and funerals, but accept some people feel a very loose link to a religion such as The building isn’t what makes a church.
I think celebration of Christmas and, particularly Easter, is very hypocritical. Celebrate winter or the Solstice, if you must but why hijack a religious feast? That’s particularly true of Easter, the main feast where the lead up, Lent and the tridium is not celebratory, but has been bought out by chocolate and tat manufacturers. By all means celebrate but teach about the reason we celebrate Easter. Most people have no idea why we have Shrove Tuesday or Good Friday.

I agree all children should go to secular allocated schools, with mixed catchments, free meals for all and free transport ( to avoid financial and cultural ghettos). There should be one comprehensive system without segregation by grammars, postcode or religion. All are a means of selection and all disadvantage poorer children. Religion should be compulsory, but should be about all religions and none.

A pity not to celebrate Christmas in schools, but maybe we can build in more equal celebration of Eid, Christmas, Hanukkah and Diwali in primaries.
The nativity plays could be done by local churches. The funding the churches give schools should be redirected to charitable work across the globe.
Independent schools and fee schools should be transferred into state comprehensive system too. The field should be levelled as far as possible.

Another Flying Monkey from the National Secular Society hijacking this thread to serve their own agenda.

How is that hijacking the thread? It's not as if it's not relevant to the discussion (unlike Tesco and village shop prices). You really are making a fool of yourself.

The state school system really should be untangled from religious control, as it is in France. It won't be easy though, and I agree that this is not really the moment to be attempting it.

In rural areas often the only Primary school you'll get is a C of E one. If you don't like that then don't live in a village

So atheist can't live in villages due to wanting to avoid a religious school? Isn't that discrimination?

I seem to have been very lucky to have grown up in a part of the UK without this nonsense. You were more likely to come across a Jehovah Witness than a Catholic (and certainly no CoE), so these quaint little religious village schools would have been a tad empty .

[quote Baws]@homeishere

Because it’s all a load of shite, and gives too much cover to paedophiles

Word for word what I was going to say![/quote]
This thread is full of divisive, discriminatory and offensive posts.

I think celebration of Christmas and, particularly Easter, is very hypocritical. Celebrate winter or the Solstice, if you must but why hijack a religious feast?

Says the religion that co opted all the holidays so they could force people to worship their flavour of sky daddy, I mean how thick do you think some of us are?

I mean who could possibly believe in a being who apparently created all the universe and life, who lets famines, disease and poverty to exist but seems really concerned about what people do in the bedroom, if he exists at worst he comes across as a bit of a psychopathic peeping tom, or just a really negligent boss who doesnt give much of a fuck anymore.

@CherryRoulade

I think celebration of Christmas and, particularly Easter, is very hypocritical. Celebrate winter or the Solstice, if you must but why hijack a religious feast? That’s particularly true of Easter, the main feast where the lead up, Lent and the tridium is not celebratory, but has been bought out by chocolate and tat manufacturers. By all means celebrate but teach about the reason we celebrate Easter. Most people have no idea why we have Shrove Tuesday or Good Friday.

This has been explained a few times. It was Christianity that appropriated Christmas and Easter from others, you are utterly hypocritical moaning that others are now appropriating them back. This is particularly true of Easter, which was not hijacked by the chocolate egg companies, but is rooted in spring and new beginnings. Christianity even took the name 'Ēostre', the pagan goddess.

@AnitaB888

State-funded faith schools are usually voluntary aided (VA) or voluntary controlled (VC) schools. This means that they get some of their funding from a religious organisation, which also usually owns the school buildings and the land. Each diocese runs a Diocesan Board of Education supporting Church schools, which represents an annual investment of over £15 million.

"And the school in my village , far from being propped up by the church, in fact propped up the church"
How?
Churches are part of 'groups' with the 'richer' churches subsidising the smaller ones.

Yes, I know this. You clearly just went and looked it up, because your knowledge of the mainstream C of E seems spotty at best.

The school in my village props up the church’s attendance, as was perfectly clear from my post. It is open once a week on Sunday mornings, and, despite the village being large, the congregation is ancient and tiny. The only time it has any sizeable or young attendance is when the schoolchildren are in the church for a nativity play or end of term service.

And don’t make me laugh about how you think atheists should live in cities. You’re both under-informed and a bit of a fascist for someone who clearly regards heir presence on this thread as something akin to facing the lions at the Colysseum.

BrumBoo I understand your view but we aren’t celebrating a Pagan Goddess are we? The evolution of religious feasts is fascinating, but we currently see celebrated the world over as per the Christian feast.

@AnitaB888

"You cannot demand respect for your religion and demand it's a prevalent part of society/education at the same time"

I'm not demanding anything, just respect for parents' choices, and all religions.

Some people on this thread have not studied the history of the Holocaust which started insidiously by attacks on religion.

So excuse me if some of us get a bit twitchy when we see the spectre of secularism raising its ugly head....

Demanding, expecting, whatever. I have respect for your choice as a parent to go to church with your children. I do not respect that my children also have to hear about your beliefs, whether I as a parent want them to or not, because your religion can't keep away from places it shouldn't be.

Are you really comparing that a sensible suggestion of having a secular state or people vehemently disagreeing with religion for very good and truthful reasons, to the Holocaust? That's pretty sick....

There is nothing ugly about wanting the state to be separate from a religion that the majority of its citizens no longer follow. Nobody is suggesting people should not be allowed to practise their religion.

Equating being in favour of secular state schools with a lack of knowledge about the Holocaust is one of the more batshit leaps you've made on this thread, which is saying something.

"And don’t make me laugh about how you think atheists should live in cities"

I never said that at all, seems your comprehension is failing you? (Maybe you should have gone to a Faith School?

I just get ticked off with people who come to live in villages and act all entitled because they can't get the same facilities as in a town

So excuse me if some of us get a bit twitchy when we see the spectre of secularism raising its ugly head....

Dont believe in my sky fairy then im going to kill all of your population said no secularist country ever

@CherryRoulade

So you accept that it 'evolved' from a pagan belief to a Christian one, yet cannot accept its now 'evolving' into an athiest/sociological celebration. Its ok for the Christians to hijack it, but very rude for anyone else to continue to change it's meaning for their own wants? Right.

Re: appropriation of Easter etc. It's been pretty normal over the millennia for religious festivals to change and even merge according to gradual changes in belief, secularisation and absorbing of elements of other cultures and religions. People will celebrate what they want. They will keep elements of festivals that suit them and ditch the rest. That's what happens - there's no stopping it!

"is one of the more batshit leaps you've made on this thread, which is saying something."

I appreciate when someone disagrees with me and provides quality feedback about something I’ve written, what I find unworthy are comments from those who lower themselves from intelligent debaters to hecklers.

I believe some people become insulting because they’re unable to compose a convincing argument and so they end up embarrassing themselves by becoming belligerent/rude/insulting.

If you’re not confident enough in what you have to say without insutling someone, then why would anyone become convinced of your credibility based on your comments, especially since, quite obviously, you’re not convinced?

I just get ticked off with people who come to live in villages and act all entitled because they can't get the same facilities as in a town

Maybe you should start a thread about it then. I imagine there are also people who move to the city and complain about how busy it is too. People have reasons for moving. They are allowed to dislike some aspects of where they move to. Personally I love my rural area and my village. I'm against church state schools, but the fact that my village has one didn't remotely make me want to not live here.