To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

[quote lightand]@Puffykins
The New Testament is far less extreme, and homosexuality is only mentioned by Paul

Sexual sin is mentioned throughout the entire Bible from start to finish. And homosexuality is specifically mentioned in the New Testament in the Book of Jude, which is the next to last book of the BIble.[/quote]
You aren't selling it on the whole love and tolerance front.

I'm running out of ways to tell you that I've read the Bible. But I'm going to propose a possibly unpalatable viewpoint-
That a book
Written by people
Lots of different people
Over a long period of time
Before being selectively edited by the Byzantines
Which is entirely contradictory to geology and evolutionary biology
And which is based on there being a God whose existence will never be proven..

Might not be a very reliable source of information.

To me, religion seems completely out of step with modern society. I also think people don't like hypocrites lecturing them.

Because religion is a ridiculous concept that so few people believe in any more - if we truly had an "omnipresent, all loving God", why would so many shite things continually happen? If he really loved us all and didn't want us to suffer, why would we be going through this pandemic?

Please explain how the bible is Pro slavery? If you read the new testament and understand in context, I think you'll understand more.

No one has the right to say what is and isn't relevant to others. Unless they are taking after Hitler, that is and actually no they still don't have the right. What is relevant to Christians is not relevant to non believers, obviously. But non believers saying it's not relevant is not relevant.

@MissingLinker it also depends on your definition of adherence to Judaism. There are a lot of cultural Jews out there. Also religious adherence at least in the UK is calculated by synagogue membership which isn't the best way as it can be quite expensive so there are young families who are priced out of it but that doesn't mean they aren't religious. There are discounts for poorer people but as it isn't compulsory to pay synagogue fees and it's not even necessary to get into Jewish state school, I can imagine a lot of people might be put off paying the fees.

Ironically I think a lot of British Jews might be more religious than their grandparents simply because of the rise of anti Semitism in recent years. I remember when Corbyn was labour leader and he did /said something scandalous (don't remember what), there was a movement to visit your local synagogue and quite a few irreligious Jews turned up at my shul despite not having gone in years. When you feel your identity is under threat, you go to greater lengths to protect it

Because we are well educated.

@DenisetheMenace

Because we are well educated.

But probably not as well educated as many who do have a faith.

But probably not as well educated as many who do have a faith.

That's is certainly true of the people I know who go to church. Most of them are in professional jobs that require them to be degree educated.

When you think about it, it doesn't make sense because they can thnk clearly and critically, and are capable of rational thought. It shows that it is entirely possible to be well educated and still have a belief in some kind of spritual or higher being.

@H00th00t
It is people that are getting things wrong, not the other way around.

The Bible does not change
God does not change

Just being part of a fashion does not wash. If God has said something is wrong, it is wrong.

@MissingLinker
You aren't selling it on the whole love and tolerance front

I dont have to. In the last 20 years, there have been several large misconceptions.
That God lets anything go and is ok with behaviour that he has deemed not ok, being one of the biggest.

Non Christians[and to a certain extent Christians] buy into current trends.
God is not "trendy".

Yes, God is love. But he is also a whole host of other things too. A loving father is loving. But he also disciplines, as just one example. People are using the "God is love" thing, to justify to themselves what they do. Again, it doesnt wash.

The Bible is inspired by God.
God who created everything, is hardly going to have made a mistake with his own Holy Book and have got things wrong in it!!!!!
Yes, there are occasional verses that have gone missing over the years, and yes, there are some verses that are a bit hotpotch to read, but there are 66 Books, inspired by God.

lightand - you believe God created everything. I (and many others) don’t believe that and don’t need religion to have a happy life. Religion has caused so much trouble in the world. I can’t see anything positive about it.

The Bible was created by the Council of Nicea, who decided which books to include and which books not to. They also hammered in the Nicean creed which, prior to that point, was certainly NOT the universally agreed beliefs of Christianity. Those beliefs were certainly not universalised until the Byzantine emperors used them as a justification to eliminate political opponents.

The Bible was intended as a primer - a book to start discussion. After that you were meant to read half a dozen other treatises (of similar historiographical value) that hadn't made the cut, as well as debates and analyses that had been written in the several centuries between the beginning of Christianity and the writing of the earliest gospels.

People claiming that the Bible is the word of God is like claiming that a GCSE text book on Macbeth is a work of Shakespeare.

Yes, God is love

Nahum 1:2
VerseConcepts
A jealous and avenging God is the Lord;
The Lord is avenging and wrathful.
The Lord takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.

Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God-Executes-Vengeance

Doesn't sound like "love" to me.

Because religion is a construct for social control and it's been superseded.

I don't see any sign of it declining around here. Before Covid, other bingo hall / empty shop / cinema / community hall seemed to be being repurposed as a church (or sometimes a mosque). Just not the kind of church you're thinking of, Church of England attended mainly by white people. The only ones of them that are doing well are the ones with a good or outstanding linked primary school, with church attendance a prerequisite for a school place.

God has always existed.

That's just your belief, and the only reason you believe it is because you happen to have been born in a place and time where Christianity is popular. The Judeo-Christian God was invented BY PEOPLE only a mere few thousand years ago, a blink of an eye considering the earth has existed for billions of years. If you'd been born a few thousand years ago, you'd insist that Mithras has always existed, or Zeus has always existed, or Ra has always existed.

@rosetylersbiggun I thought your post (the whole post not just the extract copied above) was very interesting and a huge reason why I struggle with religion - there is no logical explanation as to why one person’s religion is “the right one”. I always found it so unbelievable and incredibly unfair growing up, to be taught that a child born in a different country with a different religion would “go to hell” because they weren’t a Christian, when they couldn’t possibly know anything different.

I do feel very strongly that people have the right to choose a belief system or religion that aligns with their values and not to be criticised for this (provided it is doing no harm to others). I am always amazed by the power of “faith” over historical and evolutionary fact.

@lightand so God wrote the book then? I am religious but surely you can see that if that sounds ridiculous to even religious people, atheists would surely find it even more ridiculous.

If you were in the USA, you would probably find a lot of people who agree with you. But in the UK, the people who agree with you would maybe be 1% of the general population.

@lightand

The Bible is inspired by God. God who created everything, is hardly going to have made a mistake with his own Holy Book and have got things wrong in it!!!!! Yes, there are occasional verses that have gone missing over the years, and yes, there are some verses that are a bit hotpotch to read, but there are 66 Books, inspired by God.

The Lion King was inspired by Hamlet. I wouldn’t go living my life by it, although... Hakuna Mata.

CherryRoulade

DenisetheMenace
Because we are well educated.

But probably not as well educated as many who do have a faith.”

We, as in society, not me personally 😁 People are able to think for themselves and don’t live in fear of the church, as they did in less enlightened times.

@trappedsincesundaymorn
Yes, quite, you are making my point very well. God is not just love, and people in the last 20 years or so, have just taken the God is love bit, and tolerant bit too[the BIble does say God is slow to anger], to justify what they do and want to do.

@MasterBeth
God has a little more power than Hamlet!

[quote onlychildandhamster]@lightand so God wrote the book then? I am religious but surely you can see that if that sounds ridiculous to even religious people, atheists would surely find it even more ridiculous.

If you were in the USA, you would probably find a lot of people who agree with you. But in the UK, the people who agree with you would maybe be 1% of the general population.[/quote]
You will notice that I said inspired.

A loving father is loving. But he also disciplines, as just one example

Tends to draw the line at eternal punishment for failing to love him back enough or arbitrary transgressions though.

@MephistophelesApprentice

The Bible was created by the Council of Nicea, who decided which books to include and which books not to. They also hammered in the Nicean creed which, prior to that point, was certainly NOT the universally agreed beliefs of Christianity. Those beliefs were certainly not universalised until the Byzantine emperors used them as a justification to eliminate political opponents.

The Bible was intended as a primer - a book to start discussion. After that you were meant to read half a dozen other treatises (of similar historiographical value) that hadn't made the cut, as well as debates and analyses that had been written in the several centuries between the beginning of Christianity and the writing of the earliest gospels.

People claiming that the Bible is the word of God is like claiming that a GCSE text book on Macbeth is a work of Shakespeare.

@lightand, please read this. It is factually correct. Obviously, you believe in God, but in displaying that the foundations of of your belief rest on a farrago of misunderstanding, ignorance and misinformation, you’re making yourself, and your belief, look ridiculous.