To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Whistling in the dark and holding onto primitive beliefs to shore up a need to be exceptional , chosen and one of the in the knows and not one of THEM ..whoever THEY are....every sperm is sacred don't forget ..but yup ..believe what you like..

How does the Bible prove that Christianity and Judaism will never die out?

Read the end as well.

It is up to a person themselves to accept the Bible and Jesus and God. Or not. Their choice.

Another person can only lead a horse to water. It cannot make them drink. That is between God and that person themselves.

I was brought up Catholic and continued to practice well into adulthood. I was always uncomfortable with the cruelty which took place in the name of Catholicism. To children, gay men, unmarried mothers...it is a long list.

Then the Catholic Church set up a fundraising campaign (in 2012) euphemistically called 'Year of faith'.

I sat through a 30 minute lecture with a direct debit form and pen on my lap and a feeling of utter despair at what this wealthy organisation was asking of me when I struggled to keep a roof over my kids head.

The Catholic Church has bled people dry over the years, very poor families in Ireland whose children walked to Sunday mass barefoot and watched while their parents were encouraged to give the little money they had, knowing they would go hungry.

Finally some random woman told my disabled child to "be good for Jesus on the altar" when it was patently clear he wasn't being naughty, just disabled.

My eldest son did his first holy communion and it was the most dreary, miserable experience. They treated all the children like sinners who needed the Catholic faith to become worthy.

My disabled son would never be able to take his holy communion and I thought, what the fuck am I doing? Allowing my beautiful, perfect children to be around people who believe them to be flawed and in need of saving? Shame on me and shame on those Christian people for being anything but.

I've never been back.

As I have already said, I am familiar with the Bible. But the question you are desperately avoiding is
"How does the Bible prove that Christianity and Judaism will never die out."
I am not asking how to let God into my life. I am asking how you can say for certain that Christianity and Judaism will never die out, given that their folloare decreasing and their influence is massively depleted compared to just a few hundred years ago. You cannot guarantee that people will not continue to turn away from this until there's no one left.

@lightand

How does the Bible prove that Christianity and Judaism will never die out?

Read the end as well.

It is up to a person themselves to accept the Bible and Jesus and God. Or not. Their choice.

Another person can only lead a horse to water. It cannot make them drink. That is between God and that person themselves.

"The Bible is true because the Bible says it is".

What a compelling argument.

As I have already said, I am familiar with the Bible. But the question you are desperately avoiding is
"How does the Bible prove that Christianity and Judaism will never die out."

For the second and final time, read the end as well.

@MissingLinker the Jewish population has been drastically reduced due to something we call the Holocaust- 6 million Jews or 2 out of 3 European Jews were murdered. And before that, we had pogroms and forced assimilation.

Jews are doing quite well numbers wise. Israel has the highest birth rate of any OECD country of 3.1 children, it also has more irreligious people than religious people (for now) but they all identify as Jews (and are included in the Census). And the ultra orthdox are increasing every year and that actually is what most Jews are worried about. There is a decline in religiousity amongst modern orthodox/traditiona jews in the UK (and has remained stable for reform jews) based on synagogue membership numbers but the statistic that is far more startling is how much the ultra orthdox jewish population has increased given they have 7-8 children each. There is concern that they may become the majority.

So I am not worried about judaism dying out. I am worried about whether moderate jews stay religious. As they are very well integrated in secular society, they are free to leave. Ultra orthodox jews often have no secular education and therefore most can't leave even if they wanted to.

There’s always the central families in church communities that run the show. Similar to village associations where two families will take over the running of things

This is so very true. Dynastic, almost.

Other more progressive seeming churches seem be almost overly welcoming and prey on the vulnerable. I am in no doubt abuse goes on in a lot of them

Also very true. Check out the Hillsong scandal.

Christianity is declining because a lot of people don't like what it has to say

Which is that anyone down the ages whether missionised or not who doesn't acknowledge the sovereignity of God then Jesus is doomed after death.

Basically it's a gotcha.

Some people need religion, the Bible and a god. Others don’t. I don’t understand why people do believe in a god but it if helps them and doesn’t affect anyone else, leave them to it.

I go to church. It's nice. Our priest gives cracking sermons which are as much moral philosophy as Christ's teaching. The singing is beautiful. The church itself is beautiful. There's a community. I actually don't know why more people aren't going to church during this lockdown - it's literally the only place to go for live music, art, and a potentially interesting talk. In fact, with Lent and Easter about to start, it's about to become amazing. I'm quite high church, which I like. I don't find the evangelical services as gratifying, but DS (who is 10) loves them - so we go to those occasionally too.

Some Christians are morally bankrupt, clearly- but not all. It makes no sense to round up a group of people and label them just because some adherents of that faith did bad things. A faith is a faith. It doesn't mean that just because someone who followed it did the right thing. People have free wills and very often choose to do evil things. Just because they followed a particular faith does not mean the faith itself is bad. The bible is against all kinds of abuse, so go figure!

It doesn't appear that faiths are in decline but that a few people on this post have major issues with Christianity. They are proving the bible true, as it does say Christs followers will be persecuted.

A better question is why is it still legal?

Do you think you could write and publish a book that calls for the murder of homosexuals and not end up in court?

But they can do it with the full authority of an institution that is part of the government.

Maybe they'd be less persecuted if they stopped persecuting others?

@DNHandTNS

Some Christians are morally bankrupt, clearly- but not all. It makes no sense to round up a group of people and label them just because some adherents of that faith did bad things. A faith is a faith. It doesn't mean that just because someone who followed it did the right thing. People have free wills and very often choose to do evil things. Just because they followed a particular faith does not mean the faith itself is bad. The bible is against all kinds of abuse, so go figure!

It doesn't appear that faiths are in decline but that a few people on this post have major issues with Christianity. They are proving the bible true, as it does say Christs followers will be persecuted.

But surely anyone who reads the bible and goes "yep thats something I can agree with" is by any standard of modern morals bankrupt.

"The bible is against all kinds of abuse, so go figure!"

Pro slavery though.

"

They are proving the bible true, as it does say Christs followers will be persecuted"

And a variation on a trope used by every cult and abuser on the planet

A lot of the bible is just stories/ history etc., the main directions for living are the 10 commandments - which I think everyone can get on board with - I mean, Love Thy Neighbour As Thyself is a great instruction.

Yes, there are verses that condemn homosexuality, in the Old Testament book of Leviticus, but that doesn't mean that they are right (or that God truly gave those instructions to the Israelites.) There are many things in the Bible that should be questioned, and queried - and indeed denied - certainly in the Old Testament. The New Testament is far less extreme, and homosexuality is only mentioned by Paul. It's worth putting it into the context of the time, then, and seeing what was believed then, and then looking at opinions in that light. And even then it still doesn't make them right, just more understandable.

The Bible is a historical text, written at different times by different people, not a book of fairy tales that all Christians blindly believe.

@Puffykins

I go to church. It's nice. Our priest gives cracking sermons which are as much moral philosophy as Christ's teaching. The singing is beautiful. The church itself is beautiful. There's a community. I actually don't know why more people aren't going to church during this lockdown - it's literally the only place to go for live music, art, and a potentially interesting talk. In fact, with Lent and Easter about to start, it's about to become amazing. I'm quite high church, which I like. I don't find the evangelical services as gratifying, but DS (who is 10) loves them - so we go to those occasionally too.

Churches are closed here on Scotland. I was under the impression that in the rest of the UK, people couldn't stop to socialise in church.

@H00th00t you're right, you can't stop to socialise. But you still see other people, smile at them, wave at them. There's still a spirit of community.

Are you sure religion is in decline in UK? Christianity might be on the decline but Islam does not seem to be declining in UK.

Muslims make up less than 5% of the UK population, and there are more Christians in Britain who attend church services regularly than the entire British Muslim community (that includes both practicing Muslims and non-practicing Muslims).

Stop using this thread to spread dog-whistle Islamophobia.

God has always existed.

That's just your belief, and the only reason you believe it is because you happen to have been born in a place and time where Christianity is popular. The Judeo-Christian God was invented BY PEOPLE only a mere few thousand years ago, a blink of an eye considering the earth has existed for billions of years. If you'd been born a few thousand years ago, you'd insist that Mithras has always existed, or Zeus has always existed, or Ra has always existed.

For thousands of years, people believed that a great deity named Atum created the universe. Now not a single person alive still worships Atum, and hardly anyone except scholars have ever even heard of him. Does the fact that no one still believes in or knows about Atum mean that he did not, in fact, create the universe? Similiarly, if the true creator of the universe was God and not Atum, when people forget all about God and there's not a single Christian alive, does that mean that God didn't create the universe? None of us know for sure how the universe was created.

I mean IF a creator deity ever existed, he/she/it certainly existed billions of years before humans gave him/her/it a name.

Considering that people believed the earth was created by Atum for a hell of a lot longer than people believed earth was created by God, does that not suggest it's more likely that Atum was the true creator? No, because nothing humans invent billions of years afterwards has the power to change anything about the dawn of the universe.

Judaism has existed from the very first book of the Bible.

Judaism has existed about 4000 years. But the Bible was not written till many hundreds of years after Judaism was established. Humans have existed for 300,000 years.

Hopefully we live in an enlightened enough age to relegate religion once and for all. To allow it to influence and recruit aggressively is a serious threat to our society.

@Puffykins
The New Testament is far less extreme, and homosexuality is only mentioned by Paul

Sexual sin is mentioned throughout the entire Bible from start to finish. And homosexuality is specifically mentioned in the New Testament in the Book of Jude, which is the next to last book of the BIble.

@rosetylersbiggun
Never forget that we will all have to answer to Jesus, and account for our every thought and action.

[quote lightand]@Puffykins
The New Testament is far less extreme, and homosexuality is only mentioned by Paul

Sexual sin is mentioned throughout the entire Bible from start to finish. And homosexuality is specifically mentioned in the New Testament in the Book of Jude, which is the next to last book of the BIble.[/quote]
Which is part of why it is no longer relevant in today's society.

[quote onlychildandhamster]@MissingLinker the Jewish population has been drastically reduced due to something we call the Holocaust- 6 million Jews or 2 out of 3 European Jews were murdered. And before that, we had pogroms and forced assimilation.

Jews are doing quite well numbers wise. Israel has the highest birth rate of any OECD country of 3.1 children, it also has more irreligious people than religious people (for now) but they all identify as Jews (and are included in the Census). And the ultra orthdox are increasing every year and that actually is what most Jews are worried about. There is a decline in religiousity amongst modern orthodox/traditiona jews in the UK (and has remained stable for reform jews) based on synagogue membership numbers but the statistic that is far more startling is how much the ultra orthdox jewish population has increased given they have 7-8 children each. There is concern that they may become the majority.

So I am not worried about judaism dying out. I am worried about whether moderate jews stay religious. As they are very well integrated in secular society, they are free to leave. Ultra orthodox jews often have no secular education and therefore most can't leave even if they wanted to.[/quote]
Oddly enough, I'm aware of the Holocaust.

I did not say that Jewish people are dying out, but adherence to Judaism (due, as you have said, to moderate and reform Jews becoming less religious) is on the decline in more mainstream sects of Judaism.
I'm aware there's very high birth rates among Orthodox Jews so, if that means that there are more practicing Jews overall, then I apologise for my mistake.