To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Quite simply every religion dies out eventually. People move onto the next. Maybe one day they won't!

People tend to take a very short-term view of humanity's existence, but there have have been thousands of religions throughout history. They all ended eventually. The same is likely to be true of the current crop.

That’s absolute nonsense and you know it

No it isn't nonsense at all. I'm not singling out Christianity because I'm scared of saying I also don't believe in Islam or Judaism or for anything to do with current numbers of worshippers. I'm singling it out because that's what the thread was mostly discussing and because all of my experiences of religion in the UK have been related to Christianity - church schools, church services, people I know who are religious etc.

@lazylinguist why would I want suooort off a vicar if someone died ? Even if the person who’d died wanted a church funeral, why would I want some random person I didn’t know from the next offering me ‘comfort. Wouldn’t give them the time of day.

Umm - same here. I think you've tagged the wrong person.

Haha I have. For gods sake (lol)

I'm singling it out because that's what the thread was mostly discussing

A thread whose title and OP never mentioned Christianity, yet immediately homed in on it. Soft target.

I don't think it's because it's a soft target at all. I think it's because as PP said, that's the lived experience and the culture and structure of most of the UK.

Also, I'm not sure "religion is declining" in the UK except for Christianity. So really the thread title and OP is limiting the subject because the other religions don't actually fall within that context.

@Octane

Quite simply every religion dies out eventually. People move onto the next. Maybe one day they won't!

People tend to take a very short-term view of humanity's existence, but there have have been thousands of religions throughout history. They all ended eventually. The same is likely to be true of the current crop.

I think that's fair enough. Christianity will one day go the way of Mithraism and the like.

Because it’s stupid and flies in the face of people’s lived experience. Magic isn’t real. Miracles don’t happen. The dead don’t walk among us. Science explains the universe.

Just to clarify, VinylDetective - you believe that as a white British woman commenting on a thread about religion in a nominally Christian country, where no people on the thread have declared themselves to be anything other than Christian, agnostic or atheist, my reason for criticising Christianity on this thread is not my own personal experience, or cultural relevance to my upbringing, or the fact that I simply know more about Christianity than about other religions... it's that I am wary of criticising other religions? Why? Because you are under the impression that I'd fear being called racist? Discussing belief in religions is not racist.

From the little I know of other religions, I'd consider that they appear have as much cause to be criticised, and as little reason to be believed in, as Christianity. However, they have little impact on me and I don't really know enough about them to engage in debate about them. Essentially, I find it hard to understand how people believe in any god.

@MasterBeth

Because it’s stupid and flies in the face of people’s lived experience. Magic isn’t real. Miracles don’t happen. The dead don’t walk among us. Science explains the universe.

Here we go again.

I have no issue with considered criticism of organised religion. Hell, I’ll join in. But the insults are out of order. It’s not stupid or uneducated to have religious belief, there are a lot of highly intelligent, intensely educated people who do. Inability to express your views without insult just indicates paucity of intellect.

The number of practising Muslims in the UK exceeds the number of practising Christians. Like I said, soft target.

VinylDetective that is simply not true, and is a good example of unconscious bias.

Between 55%-70% of the UK identify as Christian, according to various surveys and polls. Only 4.4% of the UK identity as Muslim.

Obviously not everyone who ticks CoE or CoS on a census is practicing, which raises the question of how do you define what "practicing" means. There are various surveys and studies assessing rates of church-attendance and they all have slightly different results, the major surveys I've found give figures stating that between 6% and 11% of people in the UK regularly attend a Christian church service.

So even at the very lowest figure, that's more practicing Christians in the UK than ALL Muslims (both practising Muslims and non-practicing Muslims).

@Octane Quite simply every religion dies out eventually

No it doesnt!!!
Christianity has been going for 20 centuries. And Judaism for even longer.

@VinylDetective. and yet a 2005 EU study found that people who left school by the age of 15 were considerably more likely to believe in a deity than those who were more highly educated. (Also that believers were much more likely to be right-wing.)

[quote lightand]**@Octane* Quite simply every religion dies out eventually*

No it doesnt!!!
Christianity has been going for 20 centuries. And Judaism for even longer.[/quote]
Do you have a time machine that enables you to travel to the future and claim that Judaism and Christianity continue indefinitely?

No it doesnt!!! Christianity has been going for 20 centuries. And Judaism for even longer.

Yes, things can carry on for a very long time and still die out eventually.

@VinylDetective

I'm singling it out because that's what the thread was mostly discussing

A thread whose title and OP never mentioned Christianity, yet immediately homed in on it. Soft target.

Have you reported my anti-Islam, anti-Hinduism post yet?

The number of practising Muslims in the UK exceeds the number of practising Christians

I can't believe I failed to question that statistic! A quick Google shows that this is far from being true. Where are you getting that from, VinylDetective?

Because religion is just superstition and fewer people are now superstitious.

No I haven’t @HeyDemonsItsYaGirl, purely and simply because I have a policy of not reporting. I think people’s prejudice should stay on display so others can see who they are.

@lightand Religion has always adapted itself to the times, some religions are more successful than others. @lazylinguist said that all other religions have as much cause for criticism as traditional mainstream christianity but i am not sure that my denomination of liberal judaism is quite in the same league as catholicism or orthodox judaism; as my denomination has allowed the ordination of female rabbis since 1922 and there is also no obligation to believe that there is a god ( reformjudaism.org/blog/do-you-have-believe-god-be-jew). I know religious jews in my synagogue who don't believe in god; there isn't much consensus on the afterlife in Judaism anyway (I personally don't believe there is an afterlife) and the practice of religion itself should be satisfying enough- the community connections, the performance of good deeds and the spiritual enrichment. That is what is important, not whether you believe in god and everyone can benefit irregardless of their personal beliefs in god.

Thats why i don't identify with many of the criticisms of religion on this thread. If you don't agree with a certain religion for whatever reason, maybe it just means you need to find a new religion (Liberal Judaism isn't the only modern religion!) with 21st century beliefs rather than give up on religion altogether.

I think that the Catholic Church and the C of E would adapt to modern times; i just might not live to see it even though I am in my 20s and don't really want to wait (I know a lot of religious people who are loyal and are still waiting patiently). Which is why I left.

Quite simply every religion dies out eventually

No it doesnt!!!
Christianity has been going for 20 centuries. And Judaism for even longer

Perfectly demonstrated the other part of that post of mine you quoted, where I said "People tend to take a very short-term view of humanity's existence".

Twenty centuries is a long time, for sure. It's not forever. Humans first emerged some 3000 centuries ago and will hopefully live for many thousands more. So twenty is just a blip really.

@MasterBeth

Because it’s stupid and flies in the face of people’s lived experience. Magic isn’t real. Miracles don’t happen. The dead don’t walk among us. Science explains the universe.

I'm a very intelligent person and analytical thinker. I have two highly regarded professions. I have a degree from Oxbridge and two postgraduate degrees in separate fields. I am also a Christian.

I'm not stupid.

Thank you.

No I haven’t @HeyDemonsItsYaGirl, purely and simply because I have a policy of not reporting. I think people’s prejudice should stay on display so others can see who they are.

Yeah, nothing to do with the fact you know your point is wrong.

Does somebody without a convenient policy want to do the honours?

lazylinguist said that all other religions have as much cause for criticism as traditional mainstream christianity but i am not sure that my denomination of liberal judaism is quite in the same league as catholicism or orthodox judaism

That may well be true, onlychildandhamster. As I said, I'm not very knowledgeable at all about other religions, so I don't tend to get into criticising them. In any case, my main reason for rejecting religion is that I find the idea of a deity utterly unconvincing, rather than because of any particular religion's tenets or the behaviour of its followers. The harm inflicted by religion is really only a measure of human cruelty, tribalism and desire for power. There are kind, good people in every religion and power-hungry, cruel people in every religion.

One thing I find interesting is the desire to have a faith. For example my DM has always said she wishes she believed in god. I can very much understand people's desire to belong to something - a community, or a like-minded group - but I can't imagine wanting or feeling the need to have a religious faith.

I think that religion is a threat to our current society. However I also want a society where you are free to believe and practice as you wish- within the bounds of socially acceptable behaviour. Therefore I think it crucial that we strip the influence on the state of all religious bodies. No longer should any political party have a faith based group, no longer should an archbishop have any place on a government committee and finally religion must be stripped out of education. Couple with this a positive reinforcement througjt schooling that you belong to your country and have a responsibility to it first and foremost above all over beliefs. Put briefly: "your bones belong to your country and when it's done with them your god can have your sole!"

@Octane

Quite simply every religion dies out eventually

No it doesnt!!!
Christianity has been going for 20 centuries. And Judaism for even longer

Perfectly demonstrated the other part of that post of mine you quoted, where I said "People tend to take a very short-term view of humanity's existence".

Twenty centuries is a long time, for sure. It's not forever. Humans first emerged some 3000 centuries ago and will hopefully live for many thousands more. So twenty is just a blip really.

God has always existed. Judaism has existed from the very first book of the Bible.

And your post says every religion dies out eventually.
It hasnt. And wont.