To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

@lazylinguist

Christianity is being singled out because it’s a soft target.

Christianity is being singled out because we are talking about Britain/the UK. Though there are many people of different religions living in the UK, Christianity is the national religion. I haven't been brought up in a country whose institutions, rites or cultural traditions are based on Islam or Sikhism etc, so why would we single those religions out?

That’s absolute nonsense and you know it and no amount of silly faces will make it credible. The number of practising Muslims in the UK exceeds the number of practising Christians. Like I said, soft target.

[quote Flipflops85]@pluas That’s clearly not my personal interpretation of the book, but I have no issue with it being yours. Your attempt at humiliation and the (hilarious? ) suggestion that I’m just stupid suggests there’s not much else to reply.[/quote]
Your 'personal interpretation' is irrelevant. You offered it up as a credible instance of someone providing 'evidence' of the resurrection and divinity of Jesus. It has absolutely zero credibility.

If you can't understand why it's problematic that he only interviews theologically-conservative male evangelical Christians and takes what they say entirely at face value without requiring them to actually cite sources for their assertions, and why the 'logic' of large parts of his argument go something like 'The Gospels are true because the early Christians are nice people and wouldn't have made it up, and we know the early Christians are nice people because the New Testament tells us they are', or why he thinks he can apply an American legal framework to a mishmash of archaeology, history, textual scholarship and apologetics (so if the gospel writers, Paul and co got placenames and reigning kings correct, then everything else must be correct, too, including the resurrection!) , then it makes a lot very clear about the fuzziness of your thought processes.

I say this as someone who grew up in a devout Christian context in a very devout society. I have friends and relatives who are devout believers in various stripes of Christianity to this day. None of them would find that ridiculous book anything other than laughable.

He makes at best a basic case for the historical existence of a first-century Jewish preacher with a gift for storytelling, who advocated being less pernickety about Jewish law, and was killed by the authorities.

Thing is, outside of community there isn't much that the Church offers to Millenials and Zoomers - look at the average age of congregation. It is worth noting more evangelical churches are not declining as steeply.

But how does religion tackle problems such as the refugee crisis and climate change. There have been precious few religious voices speaking concern about anthropogenic climate change. There isn't much of a green movement within most mainstream religions.

Having said that, religion will never disappear but I welcome an end to its meddling in public life where is isn't relevant. I hope to see the end of faith schools in my life time.

Probably because it's not forced into your life anymore, like with school, politics, TV etc. Still is in America and look how backwards they are.

Religion is just a load of bollocks and in all honesty I think it serves no purpose. You get the odd person who does get some use out of it and it helps them. The majority of people I've known who are religious just like to batter people with it, claim they are far better than others and are actually hypocritical as they rarely live the lives they claim to and insist everyone else should follow. Then there's the worst ones who kill in the name of religion, and that's all of them let's face, none of them get off scot free there. They've all done it. People are better off without religion in their lives I think.

You don’t have to agree with me, I’m not asking you to. I thought some people might be interested. I’m not sure what’s problematic with that.

I too grew up in a religious context. I left the church for a while and came back. You don’t have to share my view. I’m allowed my view though.

@VinylDetective

Righ, because you never insult atheists

Do you know what? On all the threads about religion I’ve read here, all full of insults, rudeness and contempt for people with religious belief, I’ve never once seen an atheist insulted. Not once.

You used to torture and kill us for being unbelievers or had you forgotten? In many countries even now being an atheist is a death sentence.

If you don't like what atheists say you don't have to listen. I won't knock on your door on a sunday morning to tell you your children will burn in hell if you don't become an atheist.

You used to torture and kill us for being unbelievers or had you forgotten? In many countries even now being an atheist is a death sentence

If you don't like what atheists say you don't have to listen. I won't knock on your door on a sunday morning to tell you your children will burn in hell if you don't become an atheist

I’m not a Christian. I’m an agnostic. See what a tit making assumptions makes you look?

@VinylDetective

Christianity is being singled out because it’s a soft target. If the same kind of derision and insult was levelled at any other religion the deletions on the basis of racism would turn this thread into a colander.

I don't know about MNHQs policy, but I treat Muslims, Hindus etc the same as Christians. To an atheist there's no real difference.

Your story has a talking donkey and the Muslims have a winged horse. The Hindus have a god with an elephant trunk (which I think is cute. Maybe you should have gone with that?)

Ultimately all religions want to control believers and non-believes alike so of course they object to people going around saying it's silly.

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@lazylinguist so we are not supposed to take the Bible seriously then, it’s all just a work of fiction? You have every right to read it that way, it’s a work of fiction to me too, but don’t most Christians take it literally?[/quote]
If something is figurative, can it not also be truthful?

All Shakespeare's plays are fiction, but they tell us many truths about jealousy, envy, love and all the rest.

It is perfectly possible for the bible to be figurative and indeed fictional, and yet truthful.

For me the fact that it may not be a literal "Haynes Car Manual" account doesn't really impinge on its ability to be truthful.

btw Muslim and Hindu are not races.

@VinylDetective

You used to torture and kill us for being unbelievers or had you forgotten? In many countries even now being an atheist is a death sentence

If you don't like what atheists say you don't have to listen. I won't knock on your door on a sunday morning to tell you your children will burn in hell if you don't become an atheist

I’m not a Christian. I’m an agnostic. See what a tit making assumptions makes you look?

On Youtube I talk to a lot of people who say "Not an anti-vaxxer but you know the govmint put poison in them" and "I'm not a flat earther, but you know the globe idiots don't have proof"

I've learned not to take it seriously what people claim.

@LastTrainEast, I see you’re doubling down in your assertion that I’m a Christian when an apology would be in order.

We all know Islam and Hinduism aren’t races. We also know which races the majority of their adherents belong to. You’re just being disingenuous. It doesn’t wash.

@lazylinguist

The gospels, and therefore the accounts of the resurrection, were written decades after Jesus died, based on oral oral stories that had been circulating (and no doubt changing) for years and which were designed to convert people. The accounts of the resurrection are not contemporary and are not even consistent with each other. We don't even really know who wrote them!

This is a very typical view among modern people, but it isn't particularly in line with how experts - that is historians of the ancient world - look at texts like this.

It's always a little surprising to me how little most people understand about the way ancient history is studied, and it's conventions in terms of process. The Biblical accounts are given a lot of weight as historical accounts, including by non-religious or non-Christian scholars. You've very much over-blown their distance from the source material - they were written within living memory of the events, usually by people who knew someone who was there - this is quite reasonable within the context of ancient history. Their attribution is also completely normal for that period. In fact they are pretty much what you'd expect from documents of that type, though better than what much uncontroversial and settled history is based on.

We really need to get past this idea that we treat a subject like ancient history as if it was a modern scientific question, or some kind of journal article needing modern methods of documentation. It isn't and it has to be understood within the context of the disapline.

@lazylinguist

How two faced that the same people on here criticizing churches and running down "stupid" people for believing "nonsense" are going to be all nicey nicey to their local Priest/Vicar/Minister when they suddenly need to plan a funeral. I bet then they'll appreciate support then. How convenient.

1) I don't care what happens to my body after I'm dead b) It's not people's fault that the church has controlled things like end of life arrangements.

I have made it very clear that my body is going for medical research and if unsuitable then a cremation without any attendees and strictly non religious. This is in my Will and my husband and DCs are fully aware. My DF stated a non religious funeral and my sisters decided otherwise 😡

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare

Thing is, outside of community there isn't much that the Church offers to Millenials and Zoomers - look at the average age of congregation. It is worth noting more evangelical churches are not declining as steeply.

But how does religion tackle problems such as the refugee crisis and climate change. There have been precious few religious voices speaking concern about anthropogenic climate change. There isn't much of a green movement within most mainstream religions.

Having said that, religion will never disappear but I welcome an end to its meddling in public life where is isn't relevant. I hope to see the end of faith schools in my life time.

I wonder if you've really looked at this. The Pope wrote a whole encyclical about this topic. There are also a number of encylicals about social justice and economics that have been extremely influential in alternative economic approaches - see Small is Beautiful.)

The Patriarch of Constantinople has written about environmental issues extensively, and I would say offering more real insight into the nature of teh problem than most secular writers:

"The solution of the ecological problem is not only a matter of science, technology, and politics but also, and perhaps primarily, a matter of radical change of mind, of new values, of a new ethos. In Christian theology, we use the term metanoia, which means a shift of the mind, a total change of mentality."

You used to torture and kill us for being unbelievers or had you forgotten? In many countries even now being an atheist is a death sentence.

You know, this was not really so common as people seem to think.

Though if you want to talk about today, Christians are the most persecuted, and in the 20th century generally their was massive persecution of Christians, particularly within the Soviet Union.

But really, what's the point of that? I don't imagine many western atheists advocate or support that sort of thing, so it would be silly to blame them for it, or dismiss their views about religion because of it.

Though it would be nice if people got over the idea that nonreligious philosophies don't persecute other ideologies, including targeting specifically religious ones.

if you are a religious person yes, but I am not. I have faith. It is different.

@tanguero

I'm still struggling to comprehend the vile and inhumane way that the Catholic Church has dealt with young single mums. And not that long ago either.

My own Catholic, single mother - was 50 years after I had been born, still unable to bring herself to speak about the way she had been treated. Aged 5, when on my first day of school, she took me to the local Catholic Primary School, the Nuns turned me and my mother away at the gate.

That's one of the (many) contradictions I have trouble understanding. The view that unmarried mothers were seen as "sinful" and "dirty", yet those same nuns worshipped a woman that was not only unmarried at the time of conception, but more likely than not a teenager. Very odd.

@VinylDetective

Christianity is being singled out because it’s a soft target. If the same kind of derision and insult was levelled at any other religion the deletions on the basis of racism would turn this thread into a colander.

Hinduism and Islam are also complete bullshit with the same misogyny, abuse of power, hypocrisy, and nonsense as Christianity.

Report this post and see if it's deleted. Easy way to prove your point.

Some of the assumptions on this post are preposterous. If you go to church you are this and you therefore think this LOL or if you are religious you think this

It's interesting how people think they know a formula- like if if x - a = b what is x? I don't think that works with humans because we are complex buggers.

Anyway it'll probably be in the DM tomorrow.

But how does religion tackle problems such as the refugee crisis

I’d say this is hugely a political issue. However, my church partially funds a refugee camp for Syrian refugees and many of the congregation spend time out there (pre Covid) providing non religious support.

If you want to know of bigger Christian organisations, who provide refugee support;
Open doors
The Salvation Army
Refugee roots
Christian Aid
Christian Action Bristol

Before anyone tells me I’m stupid, I’m aware that non Christian examples exist too - this is just in response to what religion does to tackle the refugee crisis - clearly they can’t tackle it head on- churches are not the government.

@lazylinguist why would I want suooort off a vicar if someone died ? Even if the person who’d died wanted a church funeral, why would I want some random person I didn’t know from the next offering me ‘comfort. Wouldn’t give them the time of day.

*support

Becuase we’re a society of individual consumers. Also who wants to be associated with the abuse scandals? Actual Christian teachings of Peter and Paul and the other apostles are so far away from the teachings of Jesus. People don’t want the hypocrisy or to bow to just another corporation at the end of the day. It’s a shame our communities are so fractured though and we’ve lost the community bond of weekly worship. Quality of life would go up for everyone if we felt prt of a local community.