To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Also I think atheists can seem a bit sneery just because they’re angry at having been lied to and feel part liberated part annoyed.

When I realised I wasn’t going to hell for blasphemy I was so relieved but also pissed off that I’d spent so much of my childhood afraid of eternal damnation.

A lot of things are declining in Britain, it's just one of the many casualties.

I really don't think it's that people are getting smarter. With each passing day, reality becomes more like the film "Idiocracy".

@Octane

Is believing that vampires don't exist a belief system?

If so, I follow a shit load of belief systems!

Same!

No atheism is the opposite belief of theism, and requires a belief system of itself. Entirely passive is agnostic. To believe the opposite you need an opposing belief system.

That's just not true. Agnosticism is the belief that the existence or non-existence of god is unknown or unknowable. Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. Why would the absence of belief require a system?

Apparently some older dictionaries defined atheism as 'the belief that there is no god', but that's hardly surprising if they were written at a time when the existence of god was regarded as almost a given, and therefore atheism was regarded as a more unusual view.

The lack of belief in a thing whose existence has no proof whatsoever should not be described as a belief. It is easy to give other examples of this, using mythical creatures, made-up things or folklore that people very much used to believe in, but theists tend to get upset about that.

I think religion declines where it is seen as a negative.

It is easy to give other examples of this, using mythical creatures, made-up things or folklore that people very much used to believe in, but theists tend to get upset about that

As has been seen on this thread

I don’t care what people believe as long as it doesn’t adversely affect me, my mother had a very strong faith. Incredibly strong

I think there is more awareness of the bad and even 'evil' things that are associated with religion. Right from wars, genocide, sexism, fascism, homophobia, corruption, peadifiles to milder things such as church schools that exclude children based on their parents religion (be that fake or not). I think these things makes people question their own feelings and beliefs.

I'm sure if religions were simply about worshipping god then more people would 'believe'

I find it very strange that people would decide whether to follow a religion based on the behaviour of some of its followers, rather than based on whether they actually believe in the deity.

Surely if you really really believe that god exists and that the fate of your eternal soul will be determined by whether or not you worship him and follow his rules, you're not going to ignore him or change your mind about his existence just because he has some dodgy followers?

I find it very strange that people would decide whether to follow a religion based on the behaviour of some of its followers, rather than based on whether they actually believe in the deity.

Brainwashing, the power of persuasion. This is why cults are so successful.

There was another thread recently about the Jewish faith. People discussed some of the really orthodox and extreme sects within the faith. Not one person was rude on that thread. So why is it allowed to be rude about Christianity and not any other faith?

Because I just see religions as a way of controlling people and making them conform to your specific traditional beliefs.
I’m really against the notion that being religious makes you a better person and they feel they have some kind of moral superiority because they believe in a god and pray and follow some rules which no longer make any sense.
You can be a decent human being without having a religion. But I will admit some of the things that churches do are wonderful and it’s a good place for like-minded people to meet and have a supportive group to be part of.
Also the amount of abusers in religions who get away with it because they’re religious members of the community is appalling. My parents experienced it first hand (religious school) and they didn’t get me christened or raise me as a Christian as a result.
Most of the evil in the world has been in the name of religion (or as a direct result) so that doesn’t sit well with me either.

new ideologies replacing old ideologies.
Churches of Instagram and TikTok are where all the followers flock to these days.

@Sciics

Because I just see religions as a way of controlling people and making them conform to your specific traditional beliefs. I’m really against the notion that being religious makes you a better person and they feel they have some kind of moral superiority because they believe in a god and pray and follow some rules which no longer make any sense. You can be a decent human being without having a religion. But I will admit some of the things that churches do are wonderful and it’s a good place for like-minded people to meet and have a supportive group to be part of. Also the amount of abusers in religions who get away with it because they’re religious members of the community is appalling. My parents experienced it first hand (religious school) and they didn’t get me christened or raise me as a Christian as a result. Most of the evil in the world has been in the name of religion (or as a direct result) so that doesn’t sit well with me either.

All of your points also apply to non religious people. However, I agree with your point about the abuse of trust, but you can apply that to other people in trusted positions - teachers, managers, social workers etc. It isn't just the preserve of vicars and priests.

I don't think Islam's declining?
The thing I find striking about Islam is that IME Muslims think about their religion all the time. They're constantly having to consider whether they're following the rules. It's a core part of their daily life. I think that helps it to survive.

@Ginfordinner vicars and priests have the special privilege of sending you to hell for your supposed sins though ... that’s a lot of power especially against children. A teacher might give you a bad grade but if you don’t behave as a priest wants, god will hate you.. that’s where the power comes in and why religious figures are SO influential in people’s lives and have so much scope to do damage

vicars and priests have the special privilege of sending you to hell for your supposed sins though ... that’s a lot of power especially against children.

Ah yes, fair enough. I am seeing it from the point of not believing this.

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@Ginfordinner vicars and priests have the special privilege of sending you to hell for your supposed sins though ... that’s a lot of power especially against children. A teacher might give you a bad grade but if you don’t behave as a priest wants, god will hate you.. that’s where the power comes in and why religious figures are SO influential in people’s lives and have so much scope to do damage[/quote]
My husband is a priest. He can't send me to hell. Nor can he "get" god to hate me (not least as God is a lover not a hater).

I find it really sad that some people have experienced such frightening and persecutory versions of Christianity.

@Bumpsadaisie have you ever read or watched any of the fundamentalist Christian stuff - Duggar family, southern Baptists, Quiverfull - actually terrifying !

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@Bumpsadaisie have you ever read or watched any of the fundamentalist Christian stuff - Duggar family, southern Baptists, Quiverfull - actually terrifying ![/quote]
Definitely - I quite agree with you.

But quite a long way from what is going on in your average parish in the C of E - less hellfire and more coffee mornings and food banks .

In fact I don't think I have ever heard the word "hell" in my church even though I go quite a lot.

But quite a long way from what is going on in your average parish in the C of E - less hellfire and more coffee mornings and food banks

Exactly. In the days when I used to go to church (I was never a 100% believer) everyone was so welcoming and friendly, and very accepting of who or what you were. No judgement at all.

I stopped going several years ago, but still used to support fund raising activities, and when I apologised to the church wardens or the vicar for not attending they all said it didn't matter, and I was supporting them in my own way anyway. I have never heard a hellfire sermon in real life either.

This is just a bog standard village C of E church BTW.

@Ginfordinner

But quite a long way from what is going on in your average parish in the C of E - less hellfire and more coffee mornings and food banks

Exactly. In the days when I used to go to church (I was never a 100% believer) everyone was so welcoming and friendly, and very accepting of who or what you were. No judgement at all.

I stopped going several years ago, but still used to support fund raising activities, and when I apologised to the church wardens or the vicar for not attending they all said it didn't matter, and I was supporting them in my own way anyway. I have never heard a hellfire sermon in real life either.

This is just a bog standard village C of E church BTW.

Well, that's what I expected from the C of E church in the village we moved to, but it turned out the new vicar was Evangelical, and the sermons (and eventually, the assemblies at the C of E primary next door, when my son started attending) consisted of alarmingly simple-minded Biblical literalism and creationism. I found it absolutely astonishing that an educated 40 year old man was standing in front of an altar saying 'the Bible is beautiful because every word of it is true' to a congregation. (I vaguely gathered there was something of a backstory to his appointment, in that some elements in the congregation were anti-female ordination and refused to take communion from the previous vicar, who had been female. And who had apparently arranged to have a man with her at communion services who could administer communion to the antis...)

And I hope never to see again said 40 year old man in vestments doing all the actions to 'Jesus Is the King of the Jungle.'

Trouble is,on the internet, people can make up whatever they want in order to support the point they want to make.
If you want to find out what church is like go along (or to an online service).

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@Ginfordinner vicars and priests have the special privilege of sending you to hell for your supposed sins though ... that’s a lot of power especially against children. A teacher might give you a bad grade but if you don’t behave as a priest wants, god will hate you.. that’s where the power comes in and why religious figures are SO influential in people’s lives and have so much scope to do damage[/quote]
Not quite sure the angle you are coming from, but I can assure you that vicars and priests and any other person in the world whatsoever, come to that, does not have that power.

Only God does.

But I take your point that there are wolves in sheeps clothing. And definitely in the church. People do need to be careful, as in all walks of life.

Simple. Science and education.

[quote Blueeyedgirl21]@Ginfordinner vicars and priests have the special privilege of sending you to hell for your supposed sins though ... that’s a lot of power especially against children. A teacher might give you a bad grade but if you don’t behave as a priest wants, god will hate you.. that’s where the power comes in and why religious figures are SO influential in people’s lives and have so much scope to do damage[/quote]
Where do you get your info? I have never had this experience or heard of anyone with this experience.

I suppose they do have the scope to do damage, like a teacher at a school does or a GP, or anyone with any kind of authority. I do think you're judging a wide range of people on the actions of a few bad ones. There are things like Child Protection Policies today and Safeguarding as well for vulnerable adults as well as kids.

What about the good they could do, like helping people through a pandemic? If you only look at bad things people might do, you are closed to positivity.