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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why religion is declining in Britain

999 replies

Jackieweaver2024 · 09/02/2021 21:45

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

OP posts:
Blueeyedgirl21 · 11/02/2021 17:08

@lightand well I don’t believe in heaven hell or god so I know they don’t have any real power, just like a man in a Spider-Man suit can’t really shoot web from his wrists or jump off skyscrapers, as he’s a human man, but children and vulnerable people DO see it that way, and it’s no good saying to a child with whom a priest chooses to abuse his position with that the priest can’t send them to hell, only god can, so don’t worry, as I highly doubt many kids or even adults for that matter would accept that

Thejoyfulstar · 11/02/2021 17:13

One of the world's most famous geneticists, Francis Collins is a Christian, and he seems to have enough scientific understanding and critical thinking skills to develop the Human Genome Project.

Christianity is declining because a lot of people don't like what it has to say. Lots of people didnt like Christ very much, in fact he was pretty 'offensive' in his day. It's counter-cultural and Christian view life through a lens that only a percentage of people view life through.

I am a Christian, but wasn't always. Definitely wasn't brainwashed into it and not sure who is controlling me as my pastor is very chilled. My 'tithe' is a monthly contribution to a charity unrelated to Christianity, so my church isnt getting my money. Since becoming a Christian, I am a much more empathetic, caring, thoughtful, kind person. Obviously I believe that Christ lived a perfect life, died for my sins and was resurrected on the third day. Many, many people arent on board with that, and I understand why, having once been sceptical. It's hard to explain to anyone the personal experience that transcends the here and now of mortal life, if they havent experienced it or arent open to it.

Perhaps also, Christianity is not as in decline as it would appear, but that churches were traditionally packed with people who didnt want to be there in the past, but felt they had to be for social reasons. That expectation doesnt exist so much in current times, so only the people who really want to be there in church are actually attending. Hope that makes sense!

DNHandTNS · 11/02/2021 17:13

You're right humans can't send other humans to hell. I've never heard anyone threaten it either, only people swearing as in "go to hell"

Blueeyedgirl21 · 11/02/2021 17:15

Oh and I literally work in safeguarding I understand what it is, and that it doesn’t always work

Whenwillow · 11/02/2021 17:23

@Thejoyfulstar thank you for your post Flowers

VinylDetective · 11/02/2021 17:29

Beautiful post @Thejoyfulstar.

DNHandTNS · 11/02/2021 18:13

I said I'd never heard it, not that it hadn't happened. I'll read the links if I get time later.

I'm not excusing anyone, just commented my own experience and that it's not fair to tarr everyone with the same brush just because they are in the same profession. There are good and bad in all professions.

Blueeyedgirl21 · 11/02/2021 18:49

There are, you’re right. But you must understand why some people dislike religious and religious figures based on the fact that millions of people have been subjected to abuse at the hands of them ?

Blueeyedgirl21 · 11/02/2021 18:50

Religions * sorry

And I think if you are a religious person who goes to church who can’t ‘make time’ to read about things like this then you’re burying your head in the sand massively

TravellingTilbury · 11/02/2021 18:56

Lovely post @Thejoyfulstar

Whenwillow · 11/02/2021 20:22

There is truth, I suppose. Humans are just fighting over their interpretations of it.

Bumpsadaisie · 11/02/2021 20:58

I tend to think of Hell not as a burning fiery inferno you might go to after death if you're bad, but rather as a kind of state of exile and disconnection from what is truly important and good and nourishing for us - by which I suppose I mean relatedness and Love.

We are all in a state of Hell at times, when we shut others out, cut ourselves off, allow ourselves to prioritise things that don't really nourish us and disconnect ourselves from what I refer to in my mind as "God" - i.e. that which is rather unknowable but to do with joy, laughter, grace, growth, humility, courage and all the rest of those good things.

Instead we can fall into envy, bitterness, paranoia, rage, greed and all the rest of those deleterious things.

For most people there is a daily to and fro between these two kinds of states.

For me, going to Church and praying to God helps me to make sure that the first set of states, the "nourishing" ones, have the upper hand most of the time, and win out over the deleterious states.

Its not really anything whatsoever to do with a powerful entity who is going to raise me up, or condemn, me forever.

Bumpsadaisie · 11/02/2021 20:59

@Bumpsadaisie

I tend to think of Hell not as a burning fiery inferno you might go to after death if you're bad, but rather as a kind of state of exile and disconnection from what is truly important and good and nourishing for us - by which I suppose I mean relatedness and Love.

We are all in a state of Hell at times, when we shut others out, cut ourselves off, allow ourselves to prioritise things that don't really nourish us and disconnect ourselves from what I refer to in my mind as "God" - i.e. that which is rather unknowable but to do with joy, laughter, grace, growth, humility, courage and all the rest of those good things.

Instead we can fall into envy, bitterness, paranoia, rage, greed and all the rest of those deleterious things.

For most people there is a daily to and fro between these two kinds of states.

For me, going to Church and praying to God helps me to make sure that the first set of states, the "nourishing" ones, have the upper hand most of the time, and win out over the deleterious states.

Its not really anything whatsoever to do with a powerful entity who is going to raise me up, or condemn, me forever.

Just to be clear when I say "for most people" I absolutely include myself in that ....
lazylinguist · 11/02/2021 22:10

I tend to think of Hell not as a burning fiery inferno you might go to after death if you're bad, but rather as a kind of state of exile and disconnection from what is truly important and good and nourishing for us - by which I suppose I mean relatedness and Love.

That's not what the bible says though, even the New Testament!

"Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels." In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." HELL IS FOREVER! All who enter hell — abandon all hope!"

Doesn't sound like a description of mere disconnection to me.

Abracadabra12345 · 11/02/2021 22:44

@jackstini

And I think although the bible does have a lot of men in that was more to do with the times

However, considering how make-centric those periods in time were, I love that it still showcases strong women - Deborah, Esther, Ruth, Marys - plus many of the leaders of the first churches were women

It also highlights people of different classes and creeds - often championing those who would usually have been overlooked. I do love how Jesus admonishes the 'high religious' people for caring more about rituals and tells them they need to worry more about their actions to all. That's still a very relevant message today IMO!

Being a true believer and living it out I think can be quite different to 'being religious'

Jesus was radical. The way he acted towards women was astonishing for the times.
Mumisnotmyonlyname · 11/02/2021 23:26

I have heard that some people used to go for the social life (or the contacts)., or because others did. These days the entire congregation is at least 70, or 80 in my MiLs church.

Beseigedbykillersquirrels · 12/02/2021 06:52

@DNHandTNS

I said I'd never heard it, not that it hadn't happened. I'll read the links if I get time later.

I'm not excusing anyone, just commented my own experience and that it's not fair to tarr everyone with the same brush just because they are in the same profession. There are good and bad in all professions.

The fact that some people continue to defend the disgusting abuses carried out by members of authority in the Christian church is shocking and disgraceful. The common phrase you see a lot on these types of threads is this, that it happens within other organisations/prefessions aswell. All that means is that priests are raping kids aswell. More children are being abused. The fact that safeguarding policies help to keep some kids safer is great, but surely they shouldn't be abusing people because they find it abhorrent or that god might judge them? Not because there's a strict safeguarding policy and they might get caught and consequently fall from grace (although most likely they'd just be moved to a new church). They might lose their position of power and authority over people and children. And why wouid they not want to lose that? Because they can manipulate people and children into doing what they want. The fact that you will read the articles 'if you have time' just goes to show how blind you are to educating yourself about the problems within the church. Just see the good and wash over the depraved. Your previous post also mentions the good they could do. It comes across as you believing that good works cancel out terrible sins. That doing good means people should ignore the little bit of child molesting as otherwise you're just being negative. Honestly, listen to yourself. Your smug ramblings about people weeping over vicars earlier to this now, suggesting that good works cancel out sins, is such an old fashioned view. Probably one which puts off potential church goers from joining.
MerryDecembermas · 12/02/2021 07:26

Because a church structure by definition distorts the message into something non-wonderful.

Because religion has been falsely pitted against science when in reality they are complementary. They deal with different, albeit overlapping, realms of the human experience.

Bumpsadaisie · 12/02/2021 09:50

@lazylinguist

I tend to think of Hell not as a burning fiery inferno you might go to after death if you're bad, but rather as a kind of state of exile and disconnection from what is truly important and good and nourishing for us - by which I suppose I mean relatedness and Love.

That's not what the bible says though, even the New Testament!

"Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels." In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." HELL IS FOREVER! All who enter hell — abandon all hope!"

Doesn't sound like a description of mere disconnection to me.

Hmm, no.

But then I only ever read the Bible in a figurative way as a work of fiction, rather than literally as a kind of "Haynes Car Manual", if you see what I mean.

Blueeyedgirl21 · 12/02/2021 09:59

@Abracadabra12345 why aren’t Christians taught that then? Why are fundamentalist Christians of the belief that women should not work, wear trousers or leave their husband even in times of abuse ? Why are we not taught that Jesus was a feminist and a radical, instead of Christianity being used by people like Donald Trump to promote ‘traditional values’ (which usually means less rights for women)

Blueeyedgirl21 · 12/02/2021 10:01

@lazylinguist so we are not supposed to take the Bible seriously then, it’s all just a work of fiction? You have every right to read it that way, it’s a work of fiction to me too, but don’t most Christians take it literally?

TwilightSkies · 12/02/2021 10:07

Obviously I believe that Christ lived a perfect life, died for my sins and was resurrected on the third day.

There is zero evidence for this though....
Also, what does ‘he died for our sins’ mean?

Flipflops85 · 12/02/2021 10:10

No, parables are often not interpreted literally. (The quotes from Matthew both from parables) The definition of parable is;

“A story to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson”

Flipflops85 · 12/02/2021 10:11

There is evidence for the resurrection of Christ. You can choose to believe the evidence as not true, and that’s more than okay with me, but there is evidence.