Are we know in a totalitarian regime or something?

[Lastfreakinglegs]

10 years in prison for a lie. Of course a lie a out this is reprehensible, but..... Wtf.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-travel-rules-red-list-prison-b1799698.html

@Lastfreakinglegs

Thanks for your perspective *@snowydaysandholidays*... It seems massively disproportionate.

Do you realise the dangers of introducing a variant that the vaccine won't work with, maybe one with a higher death rate, faster transmission?

@ParadiseIsland

Well seeing the sentences handed over for drink drinking (and killing someone in those conditions), rape etc... yes it does like a really heavy sentence and completely at odd with the rest if the system....

I’m wondering, as others have pointed out before me, what is the sentence for completely messing the handling of the pandemic, the lies etc...? Will our politicians be held into account with the same severity? I mean after all it IS a pandemic and it’s the life of people in the U.K. that are in jeopardy (eg by not listening to experts who warmed them numerous time about not doing one thing or really having to do another ‘to save life’).
Does it also apply to politicians who put people at risk by driving across the country in the middle of lockdown etc... too?

I'm very critical of this government but I don't think they have tried to deliberately make things worse. Risking introducing a dangerous mutation by lying to avoid quarantine is a deliberate act.

@echt

*Imagine if we subjected everyone with the same draconian sentencing powers. A doctor who fails to read a positive test result. A care home worker who doesn't answer 5heir phone to a test and trace notification before going to work. Someone who forgets their mask and nips into sainsbury with their collar pushed up and later tests positive. All subject to 10 years in jail*

OMG!!!!!

Reductio ad absurdum.

What ineffable rubbish.

I don’t think it’s absurd so @echt.

All those cases are occasions where someone will put people at risk.

I could also add not going to do a test in case it’s positive and you have to stay at home - but can’t afford to not have the money coming in.

Or driving out of London when you know you might be positive AND there is a new variant to go to another tier to have ‘more freedom’ to go out and see family at Christmas.

What’s different between those cases? Are we really saying that coming from one of those countries (a lot of which are actually African counties with much lower infections rates than the U.K.) is more damgerous?

@ancientgran, see my pot above.

What about London and the new variant? It wasn’t so dangerous then so they waited a very long time before putting London in tier 4 and then lockdown. Despite the new variant that we knew was more contagious and maybe more lethal (we didn’t know at the time).
The so called SA actually has very similar mutation than the so called Kent and Bristol variant.....

Viruses mutate. We will have multiple mutations for years. The cat is out of the bag.

@Lastfreakinglegs

Honestly I feel no connection with half the baying British population anymore. Where's the sense.

The feeling is mutual, believe me.

Anyone who’s sat back and tolerated this government’s shit for a decade and is now screaming about how draconian they are because they’re imposing a severe sentence for actions which would jeopardise public health, and the vaccination programme in which we have invested so much.

Nobody gives a crap unless it’s impacting them - in this case, a sentence that is totally avoidable by just being honest about where you have been and following quarantine rules, or not travelling.

This isn’t even the top five of this governments worst actions.

For a year MNers have been saying close the borders. A proper quarantine system is the only logical step and it’s entirely pointless if people think they can get away with lying.

Btw I’m not saying we shouldn’t have any quarantine in place. I think we should have had that in place a year ago! We would have avoided the introduction of the so called spain variant in September....

But this is a very heavy handed approach that basically is putting responsibility on PEOPLE (incl all the curtains twitching people reporting possible infractions) rather than the government putting in place a system where THEY are responsible (eg staying in hotels).
I’m going to guess because they dont seem to be able to organise that either....

It’s the same approach over and over again. It’s the not the fault if the government. It’s the fault if individuals ‘not following the rules’.
And the government looks good because it’s taking a strong stance whilst still have little in place (or have nicely ignored the issue for a year).
Propaganda all the way.

@sadpapercourtesan

No. We're not in a totalitarian regime. We're in a global pandemic.

Honestly, I understand why people are freaked out by the strength of the measures needed to control this virus - for most of us, a pandemic is pretty much the ONLY circumstance in which we'd countenance our civil liberties being limited in this way, and none of us thought we'd actually see one.

But it's happening, and we all need to do our part. Whining about totalitarianism and conspiracy theories aren't helping.

“That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn't even any rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television, looking for some direction. There wasn't even an enemy you could put your finger on.”

Margaret Atwood

@Lastfreakinglegs

Viruses mutate. We will have multiple mutations for years. The cat is out of the bag.

So what would you like to see happen? What response would you use, if you were in government?

Nobody gives a crap unless it’s impacting them - in this case, a sentence that is totally avoidable by just being honest about where you have been and following quarantine rules, or not travelling.

Bullshit. I don't have any prospect of even a UK holiday for several years, much less overseas travel. Not being impacted doesn't alter my view that this 'sentence' is nonsensical, whether it is used or not. It's wildly disproportionate compared to sentences for many other crimes. It also serves to underline the government's current message that the spread of the virus is all the fault of the population and a blatant attempt to start brushing their own mismanagement, ineptitude and mind-numbing incompetence under the carpet. And it's utterly depressing that far from seeing that reality, many people are cheering them on.

Any supporters of this sentence want to answer my question about sentences for those who caused deaths in care homes? Or is that 'different'?

Of course quarantine is necessary and the sentence is a deterrent. It's very rare for anyone to get a ten year sentence for anything in the UK so it's highly unlikely anyone would actually face such a sentence. I presume the government trying to appease those stating not tough enough with covid border controls. Probably an extreme reaction, possibly too late.

However it's ridiculous to impose such a threat to stop the spread when many numbers of UK citizens, despite the many reasons for doing so, have little fear of repercussions if they break domestic laws and guidelines also intended to stop the spread.

Having actually lived in a totalitarian regime, we aren't in one.
Fraud has this level of punishment generally.
In a totalitarian country, if you asked your MP (or equivalent) about inconsistency in sentencing you might find yourself in serious trouble for doing so.
Please spend some time educating yourself about what "totalitarian" actually means.

@ParadiseIsland

Btw I’m not saying we shouldn’t have any quarantine in place. I think we should have had that in place a year ago! We would have avoided the introduction of the so called spain variant in September....

But this is a very heavy handed approach that basically is putting responsibility on PEOPLE (incl all the curtains twitching people reporting possible infractions) rather than the government putting in place a system where THEY are responsible (eg staying in hotels).
I’m going to guess because they dont seem to be able to organise that either....

It’s the same approach over and over again. It’s the not the fault if the government. It’s the fault if individuals ‘not following the rules’.
And the government looks good because it’s taking a strong stance whilst still have little in place (or have nicely ignored the issue for a year).
Propaganda all the way.

I think we should have had a proper quarantine system in place last year but if we get one now it seems reasonable to me that people get a penalty for breaking it. If you have to go into hotel quarantine because you have been in South Africa so you change planes somewhere and lie about it that isn't an accident or an oversight that is deliberate and I don't think it is unreasonable to punish people for that.

I don’t think it’s absurd so @echt. All those cases are occasions where someone will put people at risk

But they are exaggerated in the context of the proposed prison sentences. So they are reductio ad absurdum.

That's what the phrase means.

I think it's a strict measure because of the fake covid certificates what were found being sold last week. If people are just going to get one of those and walk in what can they do? Also need to keep track of the dingys arriving on various southern beaches.

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Nobody gives a crap unless it’s impacting them - in this case, a sentence that is totally avoidable by just being honest about where you have been and following quarantine rules, or not travelling.

Bullshit. I don't have any prospect of even a UK holiday for several years, much less overseas travel. Not being impacted doesn't alter my view that this 'sentence' is nonsensical, whether it is used or not. It's wildly disproportionate compared to sentences for many other crimes. It also serves to underline the government's current message that the spread of the virus is all the fault of the population and a blatant attempt to start brushing their own mismanagement, ineptitude and mind-numbing incompetence under the carpet. And it's utterly depressing that far from seeing that reality, many people are cheering them on.

Any supporters of this sentence want to answer my question about sentences for those who caused deaths in care homes? Or is that 'different'?

No it isn't different. I hope when this is all over and we have a different government people will be held to account. I work in a care home and care homes were treated terribly and still are, we still haven't had staff or residents vaccinated despite being the big priority. That doesn't mean I think we should just say everyone should do what they like now without consequences.

@bellinisurge

Having actually lived in a totalitarian regime, we aren't in one. Fraud has this level of punishment generally. In a totalitarian country, if you asked your MP (or equivalent) about inconsistency in sentencing you might find yourself in serious trouble for doing so. Please spend some time educating yourself about what "totalitarian" actually means.

This.

👏

It will be the maximum sentence available.
It will rarely be used.
This thread is hilarious.

@Sillyduckseverywhere

It will be the maximum sentence available. It will rarely be used. This thread is hilarious.

The maximum sentence for perjury is rarely used either. It's seven years, which seems proportionate to the crime. This isn't.

@ancientgran I'm not suggesting for one minute that people should be allowed to do as they like. All I'm asking for is laws that make sense and applied to all people acting in a manner that leads to the same outcome.

I'm writing to my MP - since my democratic right to protest has been removed it's all I can do.

The elephant in the room is our health system. It needs ramping up so that we can cope with this virus being in circulation. We have to live with it. No choice. What worries me here is the seeming lack of long term strategy. I don't believe for one second we'll ever successfully contain the virus. That ship has sailed. People can get sentenced to however many years, no one will succeed in hermetically sealing the place and anyway, there's a world still out there and other countries handle things differently...
I'd personally want to hear about massive investments in the NHS rather than this punitive approach.

It’s fucking nuts.

Detention centres for holiday makers and workers.

So much for a couple of weeks to save the NHS.

Oh, dear, all those ‘influencers’ who need to publicise their fortnight in the Maldives/Caribbean are not going to be at all happy. I do worry about their mental health being affected, poor things.

They should have put the money into healthcare not furlough.

It’s a virus from which less than 1% die and we are now like the old Eastern block.

Not yet in a red zone country (as in it isn't on the current list) but my husband has just lost his job and is working out his notice, at which point we will have to repatriate. We have no choice about that as they will cancel our visas. We are a family of 5 returning, with no income, to an economy where jobs are few and far between. Are we refugees? If our country is added we will have to pay 4,475 minmimum for quarantine hotels.