Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

Because I believe this is the reasoning behind it, obviously

What, trans women are the reason behind it?!
Sorry, but you're not making any sense.
How do you get to there?!

Once again, because I believe this is the reason for it. Another little nail in the coffin of the erasure of women.

Oooookay
Right
Don't really know what to say to that.
As you were then

It doesn't need to make sense to you, it's just my opinion. Would you care to give your opinion on why Father's Day cards don't have a sideline of gender neutral cards? Such as You Day cards?

[quote saraclara]OMG @pumpkinbump. They're now calling birthdays 'you days' too!

www.google.com/search?q=all+about+you+day&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjbzujW0uDuAhWDweAKHRqXDsUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=all+about+you+day&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyAggAMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYMgQIABAYOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCxAzoHCAAQsQMQQzoICAAQsQMQgwFQ1cM6WJzbOmCr5DpoAHAAeACAAcYBiAGNDJIBBDEzLjSYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=t4MkYJuXLIODgwearrqoDA&bih=615&biw=1422&safe=strict[/quote]
Not quite the same. The sentiment Happy Birthday remains, with it's all about you as a tagline, which is true of people whose birthday it is. Unlike mother's day cards where the word 'mother' is being replaced by the word 'you' .

@pumpkinbump

It doesn't need to make sense to you, it's just my opinion. Would you care to give your opinion on why Father's Day cards don't have a sideline of gender neutral cards? Such as You Day cards?

Well just like the alternative mothers day cards of past years, there have always been alternative Father's day cards. And I'd be very surprised if Waitrose don't have a similar You Day card for them in June, too.

www.google.com/search?q=you%27re+like+a+father+to+me&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwix7vai1uDuAhWDweAKHRqXDsUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=you%27re+like+a+father+to+me&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoHCAAQsQMQQzoFCAAQsQM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgIIADoECAAQHjoGCAAQCBAeOgQIABAYUOyTKliGuipg6sIqaABwAHgAgAFPiAGJDpIBAjI2mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=fIckYLHAJ4ODgwearrqoDA&bih=615&biw=1422&safe=strict

Why on earth would a trans man want any sort of recognition on mother's Day?

There is a father's Day!

If the idea is that mother is a triggering word/ insensitive for trans men then obviously they won't want a card whatever it says on that day.

None of this is about trans men.

It's about decoupling female biology from the words that are to be co-opted

We are at a point where

Woman
Girl

Are nothing to do with sex. Only identity.

Also female.

Gone.

And cis is bollocks. But even that is gone. Some trans women say they are cis women.

Apparently focussing on reproductive biology within women's rights is. Reductive. Exclusionary. Bio essentialist. Etc.
So the entire fact of why women and girls have been excluded, controlled, reduced to chattel, covered, mutilated, murdered. Over the globe and through history. Is... Irrelevant. Not to be discussed. Why are old school feminists so fixated on biology? How old fashioned.

FGM
Abortion
Child brides
'honour' crime
Rape as a natural hazard... That may earn you a death sentence for 'adultery' in some countries
Denied access to education
Dirty while menstruating
Even in the 'West'...
Lower pay
Always fucked more when the economy goes to shit
Not taken seriously by hcps
Rape convictions at an all time low

And so on and so on.

Whoever posted earlier to say this is the thin end of the wedge. I've had a think and you're right.

We need our words

Female
Mother
Woman
Girl
Breast feeding
Female
Pregnant
Etc

I've changed my mind :)

It doesn't need to make sense to you, it's just my opinion

You haven't said what your opinion is though.
Just hinted at a takeover and other random stuff

Would you care to give your opinion on why Father's Day cards don't have a sideline of gender neutral cards? Such as You Day cards?

You Day cards would be perfectly fine for Fathers Day figures too?
Can be sent to any parenting figure and surely that's the point.
Mothers Day cards and Fathers Day cards are still there for those who want to buy them.
Like myself

Not quite the same. The sentiment Happy Birthday remains, with it's all about you as a tagline, which is true of people whose birthday it is. Unlike mother's day cards where the word 'mother' is being replaced by the word 'you'

No. Not all. Our conversation reminded me that when I got my daughter's birthday card last month, I almost got one that said "Happy All About You Day" (from Marks and Spencers)

I fail to see what point that Google search aims to prove. We'll await June.

Why on earth would a trans man want any sort of recognition on mother's Day?

OK, fair point
then why are some trying to say the cards are all about trans people?!
No, it's for figures who are parenting roles to you.
Trans people seem to be shoe horned into everything

Unlike mother's day cards where the word 'mother' is being replaced by the word 'you'

No it isn't.
All the card shops round here still have plenty of Mothers Day cards.

@Mockolate

It doesn't need to make sense to you, it's just my opinion

You haven't said what your opinion is though.
Just hinted at a takeover and other random stuff

Would you care to give your opinion on why Father's Day cards don't have a sideline of gender neutral cards? Such as You Day cards?

You Day cards would be perfectly fine for Fathers Day figures too?
Can be sent to any parenting figure and surely that's the point.
Mothers Day cards and Fathers Day cards are still there for those who want to buy them.
Like myself

I've told you my opinion. That this is the work of the trans lobby. The same as everything else to do with this debate that affects women and girls is the work of the trans lobby.

We'll have to wait to see if You Day cards pop up alongside Father's day. I've a strong feeling they won't.

@Mockolate

Unlike mother's day cards where the word 'mother' is being replaced by the word 'you'

No it isn't.
All the card shops round here still have plenty of Mothers Day cards.

Yes, I am aware of this. I'm out. Thanks for the chat.

Yes, I am aware of this. I'm out

So why say they're being replaced then?
Unless you mean there's some alternative cards alongside of them?

I'll stop using the terms when men start producing milk...

What is the thought process behind having 'you' cards on mother's Day?

Women who have had children by non traditional means are included already. As their kids call them mum.

The original thing of mothering Sunday was nothing to do with mums. As an interesting point. It was to do with your mother church.

I mean tbh. A lot of this is driven by companies who want to make cash. Cards for this cards for that.

I don't send cards. I am weird like that. Apart from mothers Day, in the majority of families, who sends the fucking cards? Who has to remember, have a list, post it in time, get the kids to write a nice little thing or draw a pic? Women. Specifically mothers. Usually.
That's fucking who.

And that's why mother's Day is a thing. For many women it's the one sodding day of the year that is for them. And apparently often ends in something pretty rubbish.

And then they go and sort out everything as per usual.

You know the best thing ever? A card your child made. They're awesome. And I would imagine most nurseries etc would not come down hard on a child who made a 'to my dads' card or whatever. And knowing the kids and the parents they would be sensitive when saying go mad with glitter!

Anyway.

Mothers Day cards

Vs

Access to abortion (mum is dead due to backstreet stuff or in prison)
FGM (higher maternal mortality)
Poor maternal care (shocking stuff in UK with certain hosps having massive neo natal death rates)
And I mean etc etc etc it goes on forever.

But. Cards. Yes. Cards?

Do you see how this works?

It starts with ??? This NHS thing in Brighton wants to do xyz around talking about childbirth, pregnancy, breastfeeding.

And now we've been diverted into talking about fucking CARDS.

NO.

links to follow.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-shropshire-55244726

'Mothers were blamed for their babies' deaths and a large number of women died in labour at a scandal-hit maternity unit, a review has found.'

Ok that's a starter for 10.

This is not trivial stuff.

Women's healthcare is not great even in the UK.

Yes I want individuals who are pregnant and don't want to be called mum etc supported and respected. I suspect they are a particularly vulnerable group.

To the PP going on about cards.

You know women die in childbirth? I assume? You know women are at risk of both mental health and physical health problems as a direct result of pregnancy and childbirth? You know we are supposed to look happy and get on with it?

Diluting the fact of what a mother goes through is. Can I say misogyny? Well there we go.

And the history. And the present. In Ireland. What happened to single mothers and their babies. Long story short. Babies taken at birth. From their mothers. Their mothers. See how that word is important?

The babies were taken at birth from their mothers. And loads of babies remains were found in a septic tank.

Millions of female babies aborted or killed shortly after death.

Women imprisoned in el Salvador for miscarrying.

Girls who have been raped forced to give birth before they are mature enough. Forced to marry their rapists (this happens in USA with girls who are 14 etc).

And so on and so on.

This is a massive important global topic for women.

Tell me more about the cards.

The terminology around maternity is what’s under dispute here, not random cards.

Women breastfeed.

** Goodness so many messages - do you never go to sleep, people? (See what I did there?)
Not kind to who? If someone doesn’t have a birth mother in their life, for whatever reason, why can’t a young child say how much they love their granny/foster mother/whoever.
Of course they can. You appear to have missed the word 'pretend' in my post. If you are a mother figure to a child you deserve recognition - no problem whatsoever with cards that do so. But, no matter close you are to a child, It is not kind to that child to claim to be their mother when you are not. Because it is a lie.

Not everyone has grown up with, or indeed knows their mum.
So why can't there be inclusive cards for who you have grown up with as your parent?
Same.

By the way, how did this thread get on to Mother's Day cards? Did someone lose the argument?

Yes I want individuals who are pregnant and don't want to be called mum etc supported and respected. I suspect they are a particularly vulnerable group.

Absolutely, just as any patient should be supported, otherwise proper care is not being given.

However, I think the concept of ‘additive’ language implies that this isn’t a tailored patient specific approach, but addition of new language to general public discourse. .

At a general level, it is harmful to imply that a neutral word for a part of the body is disturbing or offensive, and that is what ‘chestfeeding’ does.

Given the people involved, I fear that there isn’t a clear delineation between language that is appropriate at a personal level and language that is necessary at a societal level.

I couldn’t care less about cards.

Key word there being opinion, yet you accused those who disagree with you as being deliberately obtuse 🙈. I did a brief stint working in Clinton cards almost two decades ago. They had a similar caregiver card then. Now, I know that’s only anecdotal data but we definitely sold that card to people. As far as I’m aware, I don’t remember the main demographic being trans people.

Maybe there has been a campaign by the trans community to make that card but we don’t know for certain that’s why the card was produced. Speculation is from a rag whose very purpose is to stir up discontent and hate. And the Times which was always been right wing.

Say even if the campaign has produced action- You can still walk into any shop and see a wall of Mother’s Day cards. You will still
Have the same Mother’s Day experience, regardless so why could you possibly be mad about it?

I think 'additive language' can be useful if the meaning of the current wording is inadequate. However I don't think this is the case with words like 'breastfeeding' - it seems to be more that a small number of people do not like the meaning of that word so want to change it.